Track Elevation Rise

[kajohnson9]

I currently have a distance of 20 feet of track that rises 14 inches. That’s a 6 degree slope. I’m thinking of adding a circle (probably 5′ Diameter) in the middle that will accomplish part of that 14″ elevation. I’m not sure how best to design this to keep the slope no more than 2.5 degrees or so. Has anyone had this challenge and has solved this? What is the best way to raise track 14 inches over a 20 foot distance?

Any ideas is very much appreciated.

Keith Johnson

 

[Software Tools]

This is a back of the envelope calculation....... that's approximately a 1 in 9.5 (~10%) gradient. If you are aiming for a 2.5 degree gradient gradient you will need to increase the track length considerably.

Adding a 5' diameter circle adds an additional ~31' of run, which would yield a ~2.3 degree gradient.

How you incorporate the loop in the 20' linear space is up to you,

 

[kajohnson9]

This is a back of the envelope calculation....... that's approximately a 1 in 9.5 (~10%) gradient. If you are aiming for a 2.5 degree gradient gradient you will need to increase the track length considerably.

Adding a 5' diameter circle adds an additional ~31' of run, which would yield a ~2.3 degree gradient.

How you incorporate the loop in the 20' linear space is up to you,

Thanks for the input. I was thinking along those same lines so your analysis confirms my thoughts. To play it safe, I'm oing to add an oval using the 5' diameter curve so I can add another 10 feet to the total length. Thanks for your input.
Keith

 

[korm kormsen]

I currently have a distance of 20 feet of track that rises 14 inches. That’s a 6 degree slope.

on my last layout i did just that, a raise of 2' in the space of 43' (including R1 curves at the ends)



but that included restrictions and cheats.

in my (oldfashioned) math that came out at 6% raise on the straights and 3% on the R1 (4ft diam) curves. tested with trial and error, then calculated the working result.
(estimating, that 5ft diameter curves might be good for 3.5% raise)
using 2 axled locos plus motorised tenders (each with additional weight for a total of 2.5 pound per axle) i could draw up either 5 two-axle cars or 4 four-axle cars per train.
downwards there was no problem ;-)

concerning your circle-idea...
a circle of 5ft diam has about 15 foot of track (edited). following my estimation you could gain in that circle about 6 inches of height (edited).
supposing, that a circle has its end at the same point as its beginning, how would you make/nivelate the crossing needed, to continue the raise?
i would see only one alternative to a straight incline or ramp. that would be to "snake" up the incline. (needing mor length with less raise per foot)

as a fortune teller i would say to you: "i see a lot of trial and error in your future"

have fun!

 

[JimmyB]

Don't forget if you have a loop, or more accurately a circle to add length (a good idea), that the track will need to cross itself, so the loop will need to raise the track by 8" to allow the train to pass underneath.

 

[PhilP]

Can you dig-out, at the top, and use the spoil to build-up, at the bottom?

Two inches at the top and bottom, reduces the rise by four inches..

PhilP

 

[David1226]

Can you dig-out, at the top, and use the spoil to build-up, at the bottom?

Two inches at the top and bottom, reduces the rise by four inches..

PhilP

Won't the cost just spiral.

David

 

[PhilP]

Won't the cost just spiral.

David

Only if you use the HS2 contractors..


PhilP

 

[dunnyrail]

I use graph paper, use the vertical for the rise then make a scale for the horizontal depending on your paper size then plot 1/2 inch rises along the length of your run. Taking your selected radius you should easily be able to calculate your length of run on the proposed spiral and straights.

 

[korm kormsen]

Don't forget if you have a loop, or more accurately a circle to add length (a good idea), that the track will need to cross itself, so the loop will need to raise the track by 8" to allow the train to pass underneath.

yes. i should have expressed that. then i would have noticed my mistake in the post above!

for gaining 8 inches of height, he would (following my edited estimation) need a circle of about 20 foot length of curved track - so about 7 foot diameter.

sorry for the late night calculating error!

 

[playmofire]

My great-niece is coming to visit next week and I know the first question she'll ask is, "Where's the train?" as I always have a layout for her to see. I thought of having a switchback shuttle climbing up to a small station so this thread has been very interesting, but one thing puzzles me - at the end of any incline the track has to level out but how do you do that?

 

[korm kormsen]

at the end of any incline the track has to level out but how do you do that?

for shorter locos (as your playmos, or my stainzes) i took two 15cm/6" pieces of track to come from 0% to 6% inclination (first piece at 2%, second piece at 4%) and the reverse on the upper end.
for longer locos, like my Bachmann big hauler this hump at the upper end was too short. the front drivers and sometimes the pony wheels lost contact with the rails.

on one upper end i just curved a 30cm/1ft piece of track vertically (low ends high middle)
i never modelled a switch-back rise. the need to have not only the decline(s) between turnouts, but on either side a full train's length of horizontal track was too much for the avayable space.

(seven foot long trains = seven + foot horizontal - turnout - transition - grade - transition - turnout - seven + long horizontal) with just 40+ ft space i would have needed two turnouts, about 80 ft of track to gain the same height with a very similar grade.

 

[dunnyrail]

My great-niece is coming to visit next week and I know the first question she'll ask is, "Where's the train?" as I always have a layout for her to see. I thought of having a switchback shuttle climbing up to a small station so this thread has been very interesting, but one thing puzzles me - at the end of any incline the track has to level out but how do you do that?

If you follow my graph solution you ease the gradient on entry/departure of the grade. A plan is worth a lot in gradients.

 

[playmofire]

If you follow my graph solution you ease the gradient on entry/departure of the grade. A plan is worth a lot in gradients.

I'll try that. One thing that may make things easier or mofre difficult is that as this is temporary layout I am using LGB bridge piers.

Edit: I've found and saved a useful page on onlytrains.com site on using the LGB bridge piers.

 

[kajohnson9]

on my last layout i did just that, a raise of 2' in the space of 43' (including R1 curves at the ends)

View attachment 319926

but that included restrictions and cheats.

in my (oldfashioned) math that came out at 6% raise on the straights and 3% on the R1 (4ft diam) curves. tested with trial and error, then calculated the working result.
(estimating, that 5ft diameter curves might be good for 3.5% raise)
using 2 axled locos plus motorised tenders (each with additional weight for a total of 2.5 pound per axle) i could draw up either 5 two-axle cars or 4 four-axle cars per train.
downwards there was no problem ;-)

concerning your circle-idea...
a circle of 5ft diam has about 15 foot of track (edited). following my estimation you could gain in that circle about 6 inches of height (edited).
supposing, that a circle has its end at the same point as its beginning, how would you make/nivelate the crossing needed, to continue the raise?
i would see only one alternative to a straight incline or ramp. that would be to "snake" up the incline. (needing mor length with less raise per foot)

as a fortune teller i would say to you: "i see a lot of trial and error in your future"

have fun!

Thanks for your input. I've been thinking about using 2 half circles of 5 ft diameter with 5 to 10 feet in between. That would add an additional 10 or 20 feet to my total length, depending on how it fits in my yard. By my calculation, that would be between a 2% and 2.5% grade. (Original 20 feet distance+15 feet from 5 ft diameter plus either 10 or 20 ft between curves gives me either 540 inches or 660 inches with a 14 inch elevation.) I think I'm doing that right.
Thanks for your input.
Keith