Too much current

[Glengrant]

I haven't a clue really when it comes to this lecky business but I'll postulate this (you do and you'll clean it up) little problem, it'll probably make you laff, those of you who read this section, we DC analogue guys seem to be a dying breed.
Over the winter I have activated my modest indoor layout, hangs from the ceiling. Basically two separate loop lines, but a connection is made between the two, although that's a bit of a complex undertaking, involves my climbing up the wee stepladder to switch the points etc, and if I am carrying a heavy B-B diesel in one hand a a glass of the amber nectar in the other, disaster is not far away.
Anyway, there I was running one train with a pair of Stainzes in one loop, in the other whatever came to hand, latterly it's been the United Tracky tram which I think is a lovely vehicle.
Lately though I took in from its resting place in the garage the Aristo GP38-2 loco, which had been running rather sluggishly in the late summer, hah summer? 2012? You gotta be joking. I thought I'd give it a run indoors and maybe give the wheels pickups etc a bit of a clean, see how it goes.
OK, so here we have the two Stainzes on the inner, and the GP38 on the outer. The power source? Ah, now there's a thought, eh? It's my old double-oh Gaugemaster. So switch on, both trains run until "click" a red light goes off, all trains stop. Switch off, have a think, switch on again, both trains go until "click" all trains stop. Now there is I am sure a technical reason for all of this. So I take one of the Stainz off the line, everything OK. It's something to do with power loading, I know, but I though with electricity you joined all the wires toegther and just switched on. The controller has two track outputs but as I have the whole layout wired to just one I would have to go up the ladder again, without the glass this time, and fiddle with the wires. I might do that.
Anyway, it's all good clean fun, GP38 seems to be running not too badly.
Sorry for wasting your time, you don't have to read my drivel, you know

 

[yb281]

Running 2 Stainz and a GP38 off one transformer designed for OO Cyril? I'm no expert on lectrics, but I'd imagine it ain't got a chance of supplying enough currants? And I wouldn't have thought that re-wiring to work off both outputs would make a ha'peth of difference?

 

[Gizzy]

A OO controller is sufficient for around 1, maybe 2 Amps.

A Stainz is about 1/2 and Amp and the double motored GP38 will be about 1 Amp, so I reckon you are operating at the limits of this unit Cyril.

I would swap the OO unit for a pair of LGB 1 Amp units as found in the trainsets. They can be brought cheap enough on the forum so why not ask if anyone has them for sale here....

 

[Glengrant]

Well, there you are, already I get some useful advice, that's G-scale for you. I'm not terribly worried about running too many trains on this layout, it's really a fun thing but it has its uses as a testing ground. I never went ahead with any scenics, for instance but, of an evening, when the aforeasid glass of whatever is to hand, it's very pleasant to sit back and watch the trains go by. As we say in Scotland "there's little amuses bairns"

 

[beavercreek]

Hi Cyril
The GP38 can in fact draw about 2-3 amps when under normal load, with lights etc. 1.5 amps is the usual low load flat track scenario for this loco.
You said that the GP38 is a bit sluggish. This could be due to something adding friction load to one or both of the motors so it will draw more amps even if under low drag load and even with no lights.
So you are definitely overloading the little OO gauge power source.

 

[garrymartin]

Keep your eyes open for a 10 amp gaugemaster they often pop up on ebay and don't go for much , well the last one I saw went for over 100 quid, but that was unusual:thinking:

 

[Bredebahn]

An OO Gaugemaster - apart from being designed to output no more than 12volts - is really pushing your luck on the Amperes! And we're not all of the view of a dying breed - I am still diehard analogue as I could not afford to be otherwise. 5amp minimum though........

 

[ntpntpntp]

The Aristo diesel is likely to strain an LGB start-set controller on it's own, let alone with Stainzes running off the same supply too. You really need to be looking at something capable of more amps.

I may be wrong but think Gaugemaster make two units for G scale? Their supposed 5 amp unit most folk find trips out at less current, however it's usable for a train or two.

I have a Maplin 2.5 amp bench power supply which I use for general servicing of locos, DCC install checking etc. I find it very useful to have such a beast with built-in volt and amp metering when fault finding etc. On occasion this power supply has been pressed into service on my line and works well with a simple changeover switch built into the wiring for direction control.

 

[Rhinochugger]

There were some mutterings about the Gaugemaster G scale offerings - 00 and below, they're fine.

I'm auntilogue, and I'd recommend Helmsmann

 

[stevedenver]

Cyril
as another DC analog guy
and a lover of whisky
and one who also has drink and watches them go round

i agree, simply, in all likelihood
youve got too much load amp-wise
which is why the go and then stop

most non-LGB locos seem to draw a lot more juice.

However, like dishwashers, sliced bread, indoor toilets, and the LGB track cleaner,
one of those simple things that will make life wonderful is a larger power source.

While usually pricey, and not as much 'fun' as a new loco, or a bottle, say of Uigeadahl, etc
it will make life nicer.

Go bigger than you think you might need.

iin the garden, i use a 10 amp Bridgewerks (a US product that has not only multiple power outlets , but allows for polug-in connections and has a handle to remove it from the garden, and a fan to cool it under prolonged heavy loads)
but

i have seen , from time to time, on ebay and the like
the LGB 6 amp AC power source which is great too
and it uses the latest signalman's hut controller (this latest version , which mumber is 52120, converts the AC to DC (the older version DOESNT do this conversion to DC and would be useless with the 6 amp AC power pack)

i mention it because, i have one and love it, and indoors it would be perfect
it is so simple, has ample power and offers very responsive and smooth operation, plus
you can tap it to power those switch machines if you wish. Its a quality unit and sometimes ive seen very low prices.

i still plan on going to 15 amps, as i power a lot of things sometimes, lighting, smoke generators , etc

with lots of power, you can run longer trains, with multiple engines, very slowly, up grades, for as long as you like, without overloading the power unit.

the other i have and which i love, is the LGB jumbo, which has some fun features like momentum and delay, but no AC output nor an off on switch!!!!, but is also a superb unit-it does have some potential for analog tricks that are great, like auto slow and acceleration and full stops delay starts, just fun to play with and highly recommended, depending on the price you can get one. it has not only throttle, accle decel, delay and track voltage potentiometer and meters, but after you get everything dialed to where you like it, it has buttons to start, stop, and refverse, which is really posh, particularly in a whisky 'mist'

cheers

 

[garrymartin]

I certainly muttered at my gaugemaster when it stopped working , but I sent it back to them and they repaired it and returned it for free under it's lifetime guarantee, otherwise I would have replaced it with a Helmsman myself.

 

[chris m01]

For USAT locos you need at least 18 volts otherwise they are sluggish, 24 is better. And of course you need a good supply of amps. I use a 24v 5 amp supply which easily pushes two USAT locos with a heavy load round my garden.

In the short term try switching the GP38 lights off. This will save you maybe half an amp of current which could make all the difference.

 

[Hutch]

<SNIP>we DC analogue guys seem to be a dying breed. <SNIP>

There are a great many of us around, although we are getting older. I run analogue because it just sits there and works without fiddling 99.9% of the time. You have already received a great deal of excellent advice from the great minds here. Lost both an engine and the power pack when the electronics fried in both due to a power hit while I was playing. The engine is now hard wired, the power pack went to the recycle bin. A little more power probably wouldn't hurt anything.

 

[bobg]

<SNIP>we DC analogue guys seem to be a dying breed. <SNIP>

There are a great many of us around, although we are getting older. I run analogue because it just sits there and works without fiddling 99.9% of the time. You have already received a great deal of excellent advice from the great minds here. Lost both an engine and the power pack when the electronics fried in both due to a power hit while I was playing. The engine is now hard wired, the power pack went to the recycle bin. A little more power probably wouldn't hurt anything.

As long as it's fitted with an overload trip, as Cyril's 00 unit seems to be.

 

[beavercreek]

I was totally analogue (so was my layout) for quite a few years but have now introduced the option of using DCC.
I have heavy duty switches which change the power for each section of the layout between DC or DCC supplies.
Most of my locos are still analogue and as I have very steep inclines and have to run triple headers and/or motorised helper cars, I will be keeping analogue operational for some time as the cost of chipping all of locos/helpers with sound or plain decoders would be far too heavy in one go.

For DC, I use an Aristocraft 13 amp transformer (13, 18 or 22 V) with TE receivers. For DCC, a 12 amp Massoth 1200Z. This is plenty of power for those amp hungry American locos even when multiple heading.

Someone told me when I started...always buy a power supply that will be more than you think you need...sound advice.....
It is a bit like buying memorery or a hard drive for a computer...you will always end up using what you have.

Analogue is great, as Steve and Hutch have said already, when you just want to run a loco, or consist, with no messing about.

I like both systems but my heart is still DC, although my head tells me that all the features of DCC are very good............................

 

[Tim Brien]

The GP-38 is a USA Trains product (not Aristo) and as such, USA Trains locomotives are regarded as 'power hogs'. Generally, one would need up to 4 amps to move such a beast if loaded. I am suprised your little 'OO' power controller even managed to get the diesel lights to illuminate.

 

[tramcar trev]

My tramway is analouge and I bought a swithmode dc power supply via eBay ( when I was a member and a couple of PWM motor controllers and they work very well. You can have to much voltage but never enough current...

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/12V-15A-...ent&hash=item2574289694&_uhb=1#ht_5882wt_1006 < Link To http://www.ebay.com.au/it...;_uhb=1#ht_5882wt_1006


http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/PWM-DC-M...n_15&hash=item3378a460bf&_uhb=1#ht_1953wt_768 < Link To http://www.ebay.com.au/it...p;_uhb=1#ht_1953wt_768

 

[Andy Worsfold]

I too run DC. I can run 2 trains happily and just about understand how to get things working. My signalling and point control is automatic and its easy to run. Having an expensive family to run, this is my only option at the moment.