Sprung buffers

[riderdan]

Hello all--first post here... a question I've already asked on MLS but realized GSC is more likely to provide an answer...

Building my garden railroad this Spring, and I'll be running pre-war German locos and rolling stock and am interested in switching out the solid plastic buffers on the Piko freight and passenger cars for sprung brass buffers, and changing out the hook and loop couplers for chain, as it's more prototypical for the location/era. Is there anyone who's made this transition who can comment on potential pitfalls or things to look out for?

I've searched here but haven't found anything about anyone running sprung buffers with chain. That could be because there's nothing posted, because the search is off, or because I'm doing it wrong

The sprung buffers I've seen don't seem to have a lot of travel, so I'm wondering what the total buffer compression on the inside pair of buffers would be. If there's not enough buffer travel, my plan was to chain up the cars just tightly enough to have the buffers near full travel on the curves--probably that means that the cars wouldn't be buffer-to-buffer on the straights except when slowing.

I've got a whole slew of questions about running sprung buffers. For instance, with the light weight of unloaded cars, I expect that there might be some accordioning when decelerating/accelerating. How do you overcome that?

Also, how much additional work is it to couple cars when the buffers tend to push the cars away from each other? Since you can't realistically chain cars together and then tighten a G scale turnbuckle, do you need three hands? One to hold each car and one to hook up the chain?

Thanks!

 

[stockers]

I have never actually tried the chain and buffer method but I can see one potentially big problem. Buffer lock.
As the coaches swing round our vastly overscale sharp corners the end of the coaches are no way staying in line and the buffer heads will pass each other a cause a derailment. Whilst the big loop couplers are ugly, they deal with this problem very well.
Unless of course if your using 20 ft radius curves!!!

 

[korm kormsen]

pre war german locos... supposing that might mean pre war german roling stock too, i see a problem with your coupling idea.
as that would be mainly stock with four wheels only, but not fixed aixles, the truckmounted coupler, be it hook and loop or knuckles, keeps the aixles aligned.
that feature would be lost with chain coupling.
truckmounted link and pin might be the safer bet...

 

[riderdan]

pre war german locos... supposing that might mean pre war german roling stock too, i see a problem with your coupling idea.
as that would be mainly stock with four wheels only, but not fixed aixles, the truckmounted coupler, be it hook and loop or knuckles, keeps the aixles aligned.
that feature would be lost with chain coupling.
truckmounted link and pin might be the safer bet...

The Piko cars have self-centering trucks--i.e. there's a centering spring that tends to return the wheels parallel to the body of the car. The spring is weak enough to allow the axle to align with curves, but return them to straight--I believe to ensure they work correctly through switches.

Since uncoupled cars take turns (and pass through switches) without the couplers steering their axles, I was hoping this would be sufficient even if the hook and loop couplers were removed. I guess the only way to check if it will work for sure is to set this up and try it out.

Thanks for the input--if there's anyone else who's tried this, feel free to chime in

 

[maxi-model]

Are we talking nominally standard gauge locos and stock here ? If so your best bet would be to get onto one of the G1 forums (G1MRA ?) As they would be habitually running in this coupling/buffering configuration. Most G scale stuff runs with hook and loop, link and pin, knuckle and some chopper couplings, some with limited springing but no buffers as such.
Max.

 

[dunnyrail]

When I was I to just Live Steam I modified LGB Stock to use Chain Couplings. Took off the LGB Couplings and the Buffers, installing varying 16mm Manufacturers Couplings to the same lcation. I never found any problems that the self centering cars did not self centre as I was not using the Central LGB Bar. I had one or two Sprung Buffers, but frankly they were not required.

The RSA 42 in this link:-
http://www.brandbright.co.uk/index.php?cPath=33&osCsid=c25e6961cf78735c4ecf90a027ebde8a

Fits to the LGB or indeed the Piko Couling Bar. However it is not sprung. There are also Etched Varieties of these about, not sure who by.

Hope this helps a bit.
JonD

 

[Bredebahn]

Just two things to add to the equation - (1) the ridiculously sharp curves that are available in 45mm scale - anything under Radius 3 is sharp, but is sometimes unavoidable depending on how much room you have at your disposal. A crossover using a pair of Radius 1 points makes life as difficult as it can be for 3 link and buffers. And (2) propelling can be extremely dodgy, whereas with the LGB hook and bar you can (fairly) safely propel lengthy trains.....  Personally, based on my ancient experience in O gauge I hasten to add - 3 link in G is probably more trouble than it is worth, no matter how prototypical it may be to your circumstances (and don`t forget the prototype uses hook and bar where it is better for them to do so!)

 

[stockers]

Interesting picture John. Any idea what the bar near the foreground is for. Reminds me of an anti-sway bar on a caravan, but it also looks like it may turn - as in some sort of drive shaft.

 

[Madman]

I've never seen a coupling like that John.

 

[PhilP]

Interesting picture John. Any idea what the bar near the foreground is for. Reminds me of an anti-sway bar on a caravan, but it also looks like it may turn - as in some sort of drive shaft.

?Could it be to drive the bevel-gears all the way down the formation perhaps?
What are they for, by the way?

 

[maxi-model]

Let's see. The coupling bit is a variation on a chopper with a safety bar to locate it. The bevel gears probably part of a brake mechanism. The spindly bit at the side in the foreground has U/J's at either end so it probably rotates and has a "sliding spline" type thingy to cope with the coaches' movement on curves. So what does that bit do ? Part of a mechanism to allow driving from either end ? A drive from/to a dynamo set ? OK, it's a rack railway. electric or diesel operation ?
Max.

 

[CoggesRailway]

I have used chains, but not in the very precise way you say. anyway i have r5 curves and in practice I have no problems, I think it all depends on your curves and how severe they are. r5 and over it all becomes very tolerant to all kinds of tinkering!

I think it would be a nice touch to see this work properly- so come back and share some pics.

 

[Grizz]

In 2002 I bought two motor bogies and planned to scratch build a BoBo diesel loco. Built mostly from various thicknesses of styrene sheet and some Evergreen sections, it was quite powerful and well suited to the R1 LGB curves.
It is only this year that I have started to use it again for the first time since 2011. Sprayed Matt black it lacked a roof, buffer beams, glazing and working radiator fans.

The fans are a couple of very cheap Desktop PC fans which I will have to wire so that they run when the loco is running in either direction, as at present the only work when the loco is going forward.

Another change is the axle boxes, I wanted roller bearings, preferably moving ones, instead of the oil filled ones fitted to the bogies when supplied. I have a few of the new OO Gauge Hattons class 66s, which have moving roller bearings and I have shamelessly copied the way they have represented this feature.
As an experiment I cut off one of the old oil filled axle box covers and found that a ’Used or Spent’ .22 brass bullet casing fitted exactly through the hole and nicely fitted on to the axle end screws. It’ll take a bit of tweaking but I think can get it to work. The final design should look something like the image at the bottom but with the rotating axle box ends, similar to a class 66.

 

[PhilP]

If you fit a bridge rectifier (can make out of four diodes) in the feed to your fans.. They will rotate for either direction supply. - I assume they are fed with motor voltage?
NOTE: Only the roof fans need the rectified supply!


PhilP.

 

[Grizz]

If you fit a bridge rectifier (can make out of four diodes) in the feed to your fans.. They will rotate for either direction supply. - I assume they are fed with motor voltage?
NOTE: Only the roof fans need the rectified supply!


PhilP.

Philip thanks for the solution to my problem, I was not looking forward to experimenting with them if I am honest. Yes I will probably run off of motor voltage, although I did think about using rechargeable batteries as the loco won‘t be in use all time. As the real thing runs off thermostatic controls it would be fun to use that as a solution, although again not my field of expertise.

 

[Paul M]

As an experiment I cut off one of the old oil filled axle box covers and found that a ’Used or Spent’ .22 brass bullet casing fitted exactly through the hole and nicely fitted on to the axle end screws. It’ll take a bit of tweaking but I think can get it to work. The final design should look something like the image at the bottom but with the rotating axle box ends, similar to a class 66.

That's a good idea, now you'll have people rifling through their spares boxes to have a shot at making their own

 

[LGB-Sid]

I am added fixed buffers to my wagons but keep the hook and loop, as I use R1 points , I played around with different buffer lengths etc. I ended up with fixed buffers as the sprung movement needed would be too much I thought. My buffers are now 10mm apart face to face using the standard hook and loop, and as you can see in the pic below as they travel around a R1 what happens to them one pair just about touch.

 

[tac foley]

German standard gauge and SOME narrow gauge lines that use buffers have a ripping wheeze to prevent buffer lock. If you look carefully you'll see that one buffer face is flat, and the opposing buffer face is domed.

However, given the rather odd scale adopted by PIKO, which is categorically NOT 1/32nd scale, I can state with a certain degree of certainty that no Gauge 1 buffers would meet your needs, sprung or otherwise, given that I have no idea where you would get working German Gauge 1 buffers in the first place.

Unlike British outline Gauge 1, there is little visible interest in Germany for building home-building models in Gauge 1. All the one-off's I've ever seen in Germany and elsewhere are by builders who build EVERYTHING themselves - in 1/32nd scale. The likes of Marcus Neeser and Werner Jeggli in Switzerland, who produce truly astounding stuff like working steam turbine locomotives, and drop the occasional live GAS-turbine loco onto the tracks in Switzerland, are NOT your typical builders.

It might be time to unwrap the 3D printer, or to get somebody else to do so on your behalf. There may well be an after-market opportunity here.... My dear old friend Fred Mills and I both know of a fine gentleman who can help you out here in return only for money. He lives in the Metro Ottawa region. Google GLX 3D printed parts...

tac foley
G1MRA

 

[tac foley]

PD

 

[tac foley]

pd