Sources of small metal wheels?

Fred2179G

Fred2179G

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I often find myself making up a pilot or trailing truck for a small loco that needs quite small wheels. I'm looking for ideas for sources of such metal wheels. I've been using Slaters from the UK, but their treads are too narrow (or the whole wheel is too finescale,) so if the back-to-back is right for g-scale they fall into the track gauge between the rails!

I am looking for wheels in the 1/2 - 3/4 inch over the treads. Gary Raymond sells a nice wheel of 0.889" over the tread, but they are a bit big; 0.75" or less would be nice?
Insulated, spoked or not, but not finescale!

Any suggestions?
 
Fred2179G said:
I often find myself making up a pilot or trailing truck for a small loco that needs quite small wheels. I'm looking for ideas for sources of such metal wheels. I've been using Slaters from the UK, but their treads are too narrow (or the whole wheel is too finescale,) so if the back-to-back is right for g-scale they fall into the track gauge between the rails!

I am looking for wheels in the 1/2 - 3/4 inch over the treads. Gary Raymond sells a nice wheel of 0.889" over the tread, but they are a bit big; 0.75" or less would be nice?
Insulated, spoked or not, but not finescale!

Any suggestions?
Click to expand...
Try IP engineering in the UK.

Wheel Sets | IP Engineering

www.ipenginnering.com www.ipenginnering.com
 
Interesting what you say about Slaters wheels and back to back issues with 45mm track. I use them on many of my locos, and use Cliff Barker gauge widened G1 track, which is narrower than the more typical Code 250 G Scale track, yet I only get issues if one of my hand built points has taken a knock and goes out of gauge, or if there's any lumps and bumps on a curved section of track, causing a wheel to lift sufficiently far for the flange to clear the rail head.

It's normally the depth of the flange and not the width of the tread that can cause issues, but the IP engineering wheels are excellent, with good road holding. They are however quite heavy, so do add significantly to the rolling mass of the loco.
 
Fred2179G said:
I often find myself making up a pilot or trailing truck for a small loco that needs quite small wheels. I'm looking for ideas for sources of such metal wheels. I've been using Slaters from the UK, but their treads are too narrow (or the whole wheel is too finescale,) so if the back-to-back is right for g-scale they fall into the track gauge between the rails!

I am looking for wheels in the 1/2 - 3/4 inch over the treads. Gary Raymond sells a nice wheel of 0.889" over the tread, but they are a bit big; 0.75" or less would be nice?
Insulated, spoked or not, but not finescale!

Any suggestions?
Click to expand...
Just wondered if you might consider skimming down Bachmann Big Hauler front truck wheels which are approx 7/8ths inch on the treads.
 
3 minutes of fame said:
Interesting what you say about Slaters wheels and back to back issues with 45mm track. I use them on many of my locos, and use Cliff Barker gauge widened G1 track, which is narrower than the more typical Code 250 G Scale track, yet I only get issues if one of my hand built points has taken a knock and goes out of gauge, or if there's any lumps and bumps on a curved section of track, causing a wheel to lift sufficiently far for the flange to clear the rail head.

It's normally the depth of the flange and not the width of the tread that can cause issues, but the IP engineering wheels are excellent, with good road holding. They are however quite heavy, so do add significantly to the rolling mass of the loco.
Click to expand...
I think he must be using LGB or similar based track, in the past I found finer scale wheels an issue in LGB track. That is why I have tended to stick with LGB and Bachmann wheelsets for my rolling stock. But IP being somewhat coarser for 16mm (32mm gauge) tend to be just right at 45mm gauge having a slightly coarser profile. I have a couple of locomotives and some Rollwagens all with IP wheel-sets that run well on LGB points.
 
dunnyrail said:
I think he must be using LGB or similar based track
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Not really, although I don't think it matters as long as it is 45mm? They fall into the straight track!

We had an argument with Slaters over their wheels when a friend of mine bought a working chassis from Smallbrook Studio, home of the Thomas conversion kits, etc. The chassis had Slaters wheels, and the problem is that they are finescale 16mm wheels. They have very fine flanges and not-very-wide treads, and are designed for 32mm track. With their 45mm-gauge axles, the wheel back-to-back is correct at 1.575, but the thin/narrow treads then drop into track between the rails on one side. My friend Eric in Hawaii found this out the hard way.

Slaters Gauge-3 and similar wheels are fine. It's just the SM32/16mm scale ones I have had problems with.

The 16mm Association standards suggest a 4.5mm tread and a 1.5mm wide flange, for a total of 6mm. Two wheels set at 40mm back to back will not fall in to a 45mm gauge track. [1.5mm flange + 40mm back-to-back + 1.5mm flange +4.5mm tread = 47.5mm.]
https://www.16mm.org.uk/resources/wheel-standards/
If you skimp on the flange and tread width then you have a problem. I'll put my micrometer on them when I get back home next week.
 
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Fred2179G said:
I will. But they don't ship to the USA.
A US post pointed me to some K-line handcar wheels, which seem to be about 0.75". The IP ones should be similar, and hopefully will have good profiles.
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What you need to do with IP Engineering, is get someone to pick up your order at a show, then send it on to you..

Then that person gets you to do the same with Circus City Decals, and USA Trains spares.

:):happy::happy:

PhilP
 
PhilP said:
that person gets you to do the same with Circus City Decals, and USA Trains spares.
Click to expand...
I can do that. ;)

My sister-in-law lives in Wolverhampton and can be relied on for occasional purchases. It's the shipping that's becoming a pain, and I'm reluctant to ask her too often!
 
Fred2179G said:
Not really, although I don't think it matters as long as it is 45mm? They fall into the straight track!

We had an argument with Slaters over their wheels when a friend of mine bought a working chassis from Smallbrook Studio, home of the Thomas conversion kits, etc. The chassis had Slaters wheels, and the problem is that they are finescale 16mm wheels. They have very fine flanges and not-very-wide treads, and are designed for 32mm track. With their 45mm-gauge axles, the wheel back-to-back is correct at 1.575, but the thin/narrow treads then drop into track between the rails on one side. My friend Eric in Hawaii found this out the hard way.

Slaters Gauge-3 and similar wheels are fine. It's just the SM32/16mm scale ones I have had problems with.

The 16mm Association standards suggest a 4.5mm tread and a 1.5mm wide flange, for a total of 6mm. Two wheels set at 40mm back to back will not fall in to a 45mm gauge track. [1.5mm flange + 40mm back-to-back + 1.5mm flange +4.5mm tread = 47.5mm.]
https://www.16mm.org.uk/resources/wheel-standards/
If you skimp on the flange and tread width then you have a problem. I'll put my micrometer on them when I get back home next week.
Click to expand...
Hm strange, I have Slaters 45gauge wheels admittedly from before 2000 bought and they have never fallen between the track on LGB or Peco track. Perhaps their standards have been revised over the years.
 
This is a quick shot of my Rocket loco, fitted with Slaters Gauge 1 wheels, with an Aristocraft plastic g45 wheel sat in front.

As you can see, the tread width is pretty much the same, but the flange is greatly reduced on the Slaters wheels.

This loco runs perfectly on G Scale track, and the Aristocraft wheels are perfectly happy on the Cliff Barker track, with no bumping along the sleepers or hitting the chairs or fish plates.
20230601_080806.jpg
20230601_080815.jpg
 
dunnyrail said:
Hm strange, I have Slaters 45gauge wheels admittedly from before 2000 bought and they have never fallen between the track on LGB or Peco track. Perhaps their standards have been revised over the years.
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I used Slaters wheels on my OcCre Streetcar, and have no problems with the wheels.
 
Measurements:
Slaters:
Tread: 4.1mm
Flange 1.6mm
Flange Depth 1.5mm
Back to back 41mm


Aristocraft:
Tread: 4.5mm
Flange 2.2mm
Flange Depth 3.5mm
Back to back: 39.5mm
 
Might be a little difficult to see, but the G scale wheels neatly clear the chairs with a mm or so.20230601_084404.jpg
 
Fred2179G said:
I often find myself making up a pilot or trailing truck for a small loco that needs quite small wheels. I'm looking for ideas for sources of such metal wheels. I've been using Slaters from the UK, but their treads are too narrow (or the whole wheel is too finescale,) so if the back-to-back is right for g-scale they fall into the track gauge between the rails!

I am looking for wheels in the 1/2 - 3/4 inch over the treads. Gary Raymond sells a nice wheel of 0.889" over the tread, but they are a bit big; 0.75" or less would be nice?
Insulated, spoked or not, but not finescale!

Any suggestions?
Click to expand...
I've used the LGB wheels from the Feldbahn range quite successfully :nod::nod:

Mind you, I use these for pony truck wheels on a loco with Slater's driving wheels without any problem :D:D
 
dunnyrail said:
Slaters 45gauge wheels
Click to expand...
As I said, I have only had problems with the 16mm scale 32mm gauge wheels. Slaters will mount them on a 45mm axle if you ask. The Gauge 1 wheels seem to be fine. (I also have gauge 3 wheels on 45mm axles, also fine.)

I'll be home at the weekend so I will measure the problem wheels.
 
Fred2179G said:
As I said, I have only had problems with the 16mm scale 32mm gauge wheels. Slaters will mount them on a 45mm axle if you ask. The Gauge 1 wheels seem to be fine. (I also have gauge 3 wheels on 45mm axles, also fine.)

I'll be home at the weekend so I will measure the problem wheels.
Click to expand...
Yep, significantly narrower, but I guess if you need the smaller diameter, you don't have much choice.
 
Fred2179G said:
Yes, they are nice but 0.889" over the treads. Gary Raymond Wheels sells a steel 'black beauty' replacement which add even more stability. .
Click to expand...
Fred2179G said:
Yes, they are nice but 0.889" over the treads. Gary Raymond Wheels sells a steel 'black beauty' replacement which add even more stability. .
Click to expand...
Over here, there's not much between Slater's and LGB in terms of tread width.

We used to have a range over here from Brandbright, but the range has reduced since the business was taken over, and they have more uninsulated wheelsets.

Tenmille do wheels with a nice, slim tread profile and fine flange, but I'm not sure whether they go down to 20mm dia, and then you've got to get them across the pond.

Beggars can't be choosers.

I don't worry too much about the tread width from an appearance point of view - garden railways at ground level operate the 10ft rule - that's the average viewing distance, and if you're going to worry about out of scale flanges at that viewing distance, you've got problems :D :D
 
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