Solar Power

Pipalya

Pipalya

White Pass, SAR (South Australian Railways)
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I have established a garden railway at the bottom end of the garden. It is too far to run power in the normal manner. At the moment I am using battery control. However i am keen to set up a battery power source that is powered from solar cells. This will be an expensive operation and i am not sure of the specifics except that it sounds like a good idea. I have MTS equipment but would like to know if anyone has tried solar power. As the power supply to a MTS box seems if I have got it right to output 2 outlets = 20V 120VA . The MTS box has the following data on it - UE Max +-20V~ 24V=, UA max +-24VZ, IA max 5A

The simple matter is I can charge 2 x 12V batteries via solar. That is not the problem. That is the easy part.
But how then can I use this battery power to input into my MTS? What I have is 12V or 24V DC to hand from the batteries but it seems that I need 20V AC for the MTS.
Or are there other solutions. I am a fan of DCC.

I am not an electronics expert and would appreciate any comment from those with knowledge about this stuff.

Thank you.
 
My first thought would be maybe one of those "inverter" units that can take 12V DC and convert to mains AC? The sort of thing people use to run mains powered stuff from a car battery when out camping etc.

That way you can then simply use your MTS power supply and the rest of the gear as normal?

This kind of thing....

http://www.solaronline.com.au/300w-12vdc-to-230vac-xantrex-xpower-inverter.html

NB: I'm not saying that's the exact one you need: you'll need to know some idea of the power requirement of the MTS power supply to choose the most appropriate model.

By my reckoning (but please check!), assuming MTS is 24V at 5 amps, that's 120 watts so you'd probably be ok with the 150 watt version of the example shown above. However if it were me I'd still go for the 300 watt to give a bit of headroom and allow for use with other gear.
 
I'm no expert on this either, but I do know that MTS delivers AC to the rails, so you do need an AC input to the central unit. It's simple enough to convert AC to DC, but is it easy (or even possible) to go the other way - from DC input to AC output - is that what those yellow box inverters you see around building sites do (to run mains equipment off low-volt sources?), or am I completely off-beam on this?

I take it you've got a very, very, VERY long garden, especially by our standards in the UK? Unless you're talking literally hundreds of yards, couldn't you run a buried armoured cable?
 
You posted your reply while I was writing mine, Nick. That's what I was thinking of - or is there a simpler way of going from DC to AC without having to go up to mains voltage and then back down again? What bit of the inverter box actually converts the current flow, as opposed to transforming the voltage?
 
You posted your reply while I was writing mine, Nick. That's what I was thinking of - or is there a simpler way of going from DC to AC without having to go up to mains voltage and then back down again? What bit of the inverter box actually converts the current flow, as opposed to transforming the voltage?
Click to expand...
Well, I reckon basically all you need is a circuit to generate an AC sine wave at the required 50/60Hz frequency and with enough grunt to handle the amps, then bump that up or down to the required voltage using a transformer. I'm sure the electrical wizzards could advise in more detail.

Seems to me that buying a ready-made inverter seems a better/safer idea plus you can then use it for any other mains powered gear - for example a bit of soldering down the far end of the garden!
 
Simply your layout is too small. It really should be taking most of the garden up (regardless of size) and then you can just connect it the house end.... Simples eh? :bigsmile: LOL
 
CoggesRailway said:
Simply your layout is too small. It really should be taking most of the garden up (regardless of size) and then you can just connect it the house end.... Simples eh? :bigsmile: LOL
Click to expand...

Brilliant!
 
The MTS Central Station can be powered by either DC or AC.
The MTS waveform on the rails is not derived from the 50 Hz mains; it is a square-wave (chopped DC) at very much higher frequency. The actual waveform is decided by what instructions are needed.

On the Large Scale Central forum some years back there was a write-up about using LGB MTS components to give true radio control.

The writer coupled a boxcar behind the loco.
The boxcar contained a Central Controller (without its case) that he'd fitted with an LGB wireless receiver; plus an 18 volt battery (from an electric drill) to power the Controller.
The output from the Controller was wired direct to the loco.
He operated the loco using an LGB handset with wireless transmitter.

Brilliant

David
 
LTfan said:
The MTS Central Station can be powered by either DC or AC.
The MTS waveform on the rails is not derived from the 50 Hz mains; it is a square-wave (chopped DC) at very much higher frequency. The actual waveform is decided by what instructions are needed.

On the Large Scale Central forum some years back there was a write-up about using LGB MTS components to give true radio control.

The writer coupled a boxcar behind the loco.
The boxcar contained a Central Controller (without its case) that he'd fitted with an LGB wireless receiver; plus an 18 volt battery (from an electric drill) to power the Controller.
The output from the Controller was wired direct to the loco.
He operated the loco using an LGB handset with wireless transmitter.

Brilliant

David
Click to expand...

Well, there you go, Peter - that looks like the answer then, it should work from your solar-charged batteries! I'd assumed that because the MTS central station had the standard LGB white and black AC terminals on its input side, that it required an AC input only.

Clever idea with the controller in the boxcar, but I'd have thought that was a VERY expensive way of getting RC, given the cost of the MTS central station! Surely very, very much cheaper to use a normal 2-channel RC Tx/Rx combo and a speed controller? Was there any particular reason the guy did it that way, other than just to prove it could be done?
 
Partly answering my own question in the post I just made, I guess if the loco was sound-equipped then the radio-MTS-on-board thing would make sense, as you'd have full control over all the sound effects; still can't see much reason other than that, though.
 
lisa/paul the owners off this fourm run there garden railway of a wind turbine, which trickel feeds a set off battiers which in turn power the massoht system..
 
[align=center]I use two cheap solar panels from a caravan centre, about £15 each, these keep the main batteries charged, I think they supposed to chuck out 20W but 10W would be nearer,you need to put in a blocker diode as they will drain the battery at night, I need at least 14.5v on the rails so my locos can charge, these seem to put out 15.1v ,they are also sold at marine outlets but ata a higher price as yatty types have more money supposedly, when I lived on a boat I never had any money, and my batteries were always flat.
[/align]
 
MR SPOCK said:
[align=center]I use two cheap solar panels from a caravan centre, about £15 each, these keep the main batteries charged, I think they supposed to chuck out 20W but 10W would be nearer,you need to put in a blocker diode as they will drain the battery at night, I need at least 14.5v on the rails so my locos can charge, these seem to put out 15.1v ,they are also sold at marine outlets but ata a higher price as yatty types have more money supposedly, when I lived on a boat I never had any money, and my batteries were always flat.
[/align]
Click to expand...

Have we inadvertantly found the answer to [STRIKE]global warming[/STRIKE] Sorry climate change? everybody fit diodes in your solar panels to stop the panels radiating the batterys energy away as heat???????? My Boys work for a company here in California that makes a special electronic box thingy that cut's off panels that arn't actually producing energy, if they get damaged or in shade apparently it makes a huge difference in there efficiency....................
http://www.xandexsolar.com/
54cb50597a894cb9928e314e8b2c3762.jpg
 
You've already had the good news that the MTS central station can be powered from a DC supply, but do remember that if you use DC, LGB recommend the highest output voltage possible (24 volts from their own units).

By the way, the 55006 manual covers using DC power on page 13 (English version), though you have the essentials already from the Forum. See: http://www.champex-linden.de/lgb_pr...DD10E68525714C005F8C54/$FILE/55006_042006.pdf
 
minimans said:
MR SPOCK said:
[align=center]I use two cheap solar panels from a caravan centre, about £15 each, these keep the main batteries charged, I think they supposed to chuck out 20W but 10W would be nearer,you need to put in a blocker diode as they will drain the battery at night, I need at least 14.5v on the rails so my locos can charge, these seem to put out 15.1v ,they are also sold at marine outlets but ata a higher price as yatty types have more money supposedly, when I lived on a boat I never had any money, and my batteries were always flat.
[/align]
Click to expand...

Have we inadvertantly found the answer to [strike]global warming[/strike] Sorry climate change? everybody fit diodes in your solar panels to stop the panels radiating the batterys energy away as heat???????? My Boys work for a company here in California that makes a special electronic box thingy that cut's off panels that arn't actually producing energy, if they get damaged or in shade apparently it makes a huge difference in there efficiency....................
http://www.xandexsolar.com/
images
Click to expand...

[align=center]I have never understood why panel makers never fit a blocker? when I fitted panels for a living onto yatts the panels got really warm at night , the battery was flattish next day and so it all started again, a 50p Schottkey diode fettled it and did not allow charging till voltage rose, we did this by trial and error,

mmmmm
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Many thanks to all those providing solutions. May I add that I don't have control of the whole garden as that belongs to my son. I live in a second story apartment so up to now my locos have run on the living room floor when the track is down. I have been ceded some territory at the bottom of a large garden far from the house. I hope to post a few pictures in the track section soon to help with those who have difficulty understanding the problem. I have just received (free) six 12v sealed heavy duty industrial batteries that will form the basis of the power supply. Charging these will be from solar cells as indicated before. I will try to keep folk updated with developments. Progress will be a little slow at the moment as I will soon be convalescing after surgery and besides the weather here is not good for outside work - heavy rain with more to come in the next weeks. Winter has just finished!
 
I know of one garden railway that is powered from HD Lead Acid batteries.

Current is virtually limitless and the batteries themselves do not drain significantly over a period of time....
 
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