Snowplows and rack

[don9GLC2]

Its a theoretical problem, because I have no idea where my track is buried under a little snow so I cannot install my newly acquired rack, but how do you clear snow from an LGB rack system?

Obviously the 'hand of dog' is one way, but I prefer track based solutions. (And my dogs are a big bigger than G scale anyway).

It seems from a bit of table top experimenting that the rack is slightly proud of the running rails. Is this a problem, or does a plow need sufficient clearance that the rack is avoided?


And does the rack itself need to be clear of snow? I was thinking of the brush type track cleaners, following the plow.

I've seen lots of dramatic snowplow videos on adhesion railroads but how do full size cog railways cope?


And for the rivet counters, only!
Has anyone converted an LGB rack loco to the Abt system?

 

[dunnyrail]

The UTube Video below shows (the second train) a train arriving with a Snow Plow on it, there is a cutout to be seen for the rack on the Plow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8hkG7Drr_c

Hope this helps,
JonD

 

[tram47]

voir ici ,
see here,
http://voiemetriquelibre.moninter.n...med-le-chemin-de-fer-du-vignolet-t1146-90.htm

 

[stevedenver]

well heres a thought
the lgb plow (the yellow one with the big silver wedge and lights)

has a soft rubber dam which just barely rides above the track-basically a v shaped fixed wedge windshield wiper of sorts  -it is invisible unless you turn the unit over-but its basically bolted to the back of the plow face -a skirt of sorts



its soft enough to give way on raised items and upward changes in incline
yet will brush away snow and lays very close to the railhead when otherwise on the level

so, 
might i suggest a plow (of any sort) with a window squeegee fixed, which can ride right on top of the cogs and yet also clear the rail heads-obviouly a notch may of may not be appropriate-(id have to experiment-but im inclined (ha) to think no notch might be the better and more all around fix  

as for the rack being clear-
meaning the actual teeth-
if the snow is soft and not packed shouldnt be a problem-once its frozen into the rack -youre stopped

i would imagine that if you plow light and fluffy and very cold powder-no special issues-there would be enough air space to run over it rack and rails

make it wet and heavy and i think you could have another problem entirely

to add one other thought-as the rack axels are in short supply -if at all-id err on the side of care -dont want any broken teeth-ie from bouncing etc

 

[mike]

well heres a thought
the lgb plow (the yellow one with the big silver wedge and lights)

has a soft rubber dam which just barely rides above the track-basically a v shaped fixed wedge windshield wiper of sorts -it is invisible unless you turn the unit over-but its basically bolted to the back of the plow face -a skirt of sorts



its soft enough to give way on raised items and upward changes in incline
yet will brush away snow and lays very close to the railhead when otherwise on the level

so,
might i suggest a plow (of any sort) with a window squeegee fixed, which can ride right on top of the cogs and yet also clear the rail heads-obviouly a noth may of may not be appropriate-(id have to experiment-but im inclined (ha) to think no notch might be the better and more all around fix

as for the rack being clear-
meaning the actual teeth-
if the snow is soft and not packed shouldnt be a problem-once its frozen into the rack -youre stopped

i would imagine that if you plow light and fluffy and very cold powder-no special issues-there would be enough air space to run over it rack and rails

make it wet and heavy and i think you could have another problem entirely

to add one other thought-as the rack axels are in short supply -if at all-id err on the side of care -dont want any broken teeth-ie from bouncing etc

dam ,beatern to it, just run snowplow.com up the rack section, it runs over the rack section no problem, used 1 off the rack locos to help push it up ..

 

[don9GLC]

. . .
to add one other thought-as the rack axels are in short supply -if at all-id err on the side of care -dont want any broken teeth-ie from bouncing etc

That's probably much more important than trying to cope with the snow.

The full sized railway has given up inland. Buses have replaced the trains. And that's with a thaw on the way. With drifts I've got over scale 20m of snow on the line. I think my cog railway will shut down in the heavy snow. I noticed that the CairnGorm funicular had to stop today. So that's two prototype examples to follow

Its definitely a job for a rotary plow, and the idea of the rubber skirt is really useful. Thanks for that.

However when we have as much snow as this, I think that the plow will be kept for the adhesion sections.

Thanks for your suggestions and advice.

Don

 

[don9GLC]

. . .
, just run snowplow.com up the rack section, it runs over the rack section no problem, used 1 off the rack locos to help push it up ..

Mike,
That's very interesting. Just how deep was the snow?
And was it powdery or icy?

Don

 

[don9GLC]

. . . there is a cutout to be seen for the rack on the Plow.

Hope this helps,
JonD

Thanks, that was an excellent link. Its nice to see how they do it in full size.

I'm guessing that they rely on the weight of the train (and hence the mechanical load on the rack) to clear any snow away. Since my snow is not 'G scale' I have a feeling that something else may be required.

Being new to LGB rack, I'm not really certain that it is as robust as I would like, and the plastic for the loco cog wheel would not have been my choice of material. Its relatively easy to replace the rack sections, but it looks to be a fairly significant job to replace the cog wheel.

I suspect that the safe plan is to stop rack operation when the snow is about half way up the train, say at about 100mm.

 

[mike]

. . .
, just run snowplow.com up the rack section, it runs over the rack section no problem, used 1 off the rack locos to help push it up ..

Mike,
That's very interesting. Just how deep was the snow?
And was it powdery or icy?

Don

just up to the flashy lights ..and wet, solid, orrible

 

[tram47]

see you !!!

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/amtrain/rot02.wmv < Link To http://pagesperso-orange.fr/amtrain/rot02.wmv

 

[don9GLC]

see you !!!

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/amtrain/rot02.wmv < Link To http://pagesperso-orange.fr/amtrain/rot02.wmv</a></font> < Link To http://pagesperso-orange.fr/amtrain/rot02.wmv

Sorry Daniel,

That link does not work for me

 

[don9GLC]

When running LGB rack locos in wet or snowy conditions you run the risk of spraying the electronics inside the loco.

I once tried to cure a clonking noise on my rack loco by putting grease on the rack and then running the loco over it. As it didnt cure the problem I took the loco apart and was horrified by the amount of grease spatterred over everything inside.

I also find that unless the snowplough is weighted they can derail and on a rack line this could be a real disaster albeit if the snow is deep a falling loco might well be cushioned

The more I hear, the less I feel inclined to get frozen, never mind my poor rack loco

Thanks for the warning about ingress to the loco. I have a plan to fit a decoder and a bit of 'weatherproofing' might be in order.

Now in the LGB leaflet and on most videos I have seen, the rack loco is downhill from the train, but on main line service, such as the Glacier Express on the MGB, the loco appears at the front. I expect that the relatively modest gradients on the GEX route mean that the need to have the loco (and the rack brake) downhill is reduced.

I'm guessing here, but is it easier to plow downhill? Or is the plow more likely to derail?

And today's forecast means that I might find my track before it snows again

 

[stevedenver]

good to know about grease from the rack and into the loco-wouldnt have thought of that-

  as in real life-its far easier to plow down hill 
and as you observe
a heavy plow is the first step and the second
is lots of ooomph behind the plow

however i would not use a rack loco with rack for oomph because you might chip a tooth

i use 2 genesis or 2 WP&Y diesels for oomph (not on a rack line tho-) 
i have both the yellow plow-which is often pushed right off the icy rails, as well as the little anvil with the stainz motor block-onto which i have set a 5lb block of lead-and which works the best so long as the block stays seated, the snow isnt too deep and the engines dont stall from water on the rails freezing as they pass


im very careful with the rack stuff for all of the reasons and perils noted above-nothing is worse than having a loco hit concrete or a rock etc (did this not so long ago with a NEW forney on its second or third day-really upset me-wasnt sure if id be able to get the parts-and rack parts are getting very hard to find as i understand things 

im also wary now about over taxing anything as i just always seem to not appreciate some potentially damaging and negative side of really pushing equipment (since spares are getting rather rare)

i always find when i pull an extra heavy train, run too fast, push too hard-something derails, gets scraped, breaks and im unhappy

ive taken a slow and easy approach testing the water as i go but being mindful

 

[dunnyrail]

Don9 re your query about Locomotive being at the Up Hill end of the train in some circumstances. One line where this certainly happens is the former SBB Brunig line out of Meiringen when heading towards Luzern. On this and other lines where this is the practice, the Coaches have a Rack wheel too. Thus your Brunig Steam Rack Loco + FO Electric Locomotives can go up hill at Either End (you do need to assume that your coaches are rack Fitted). Hope this adds a litte to the discussions.
JonD

 

[mike]

bit off the wrong kind off snow..

 

[tram47]

Orléans (FRANCE)

 

[don9GLC]

Don9 re your query about Locomotive being at the Up Hill end of the train in some circumstances. One line where this certainly happens is the former SBB Brunig line out of Meiringen when heading towards Luzern. On this and other lines where this is the practice, the Coaches have a Rack wheel too. Thus your Brunig Steam Rack Loco + FO Electric Locomotives can go up hill at Either End (you do need to assume that your coaches are rack Fitted). Hope this adds a litte to the discussions.
JonD

Thanks, that was a great help. I had not realized that the Glacier Express coaches were also fitted with cogs! Its even mentioned in the Stadler brochure, and I was fascinated to read the the full size are already prepared for Kadee couplers, one of my 'pending projects' for when the weather gets bad

http://www.stadlerrail.com/media/uploads/factsheets/RZW_RhB_Glacier_Express_e.pdf

 

[don9GLC]

bit off the wrong kind off snow..

Thanks Mike, a picture worth a thousand words!

I'm getting quite nervous about damage to the rack and the difficulties in getting spares, so I think I might go back to the old days (before the Fukra-basis tunnel) and stop the trains in snow

If I understood correctly, the BBC news website said there are 216 different types of snow!

 

[mike]

bit off the wrong kind off snow..

Thanks Mike, a picture worth a thousand words!

I'm getting quite nervous about damage to the rack and the difficulties in getting spares, so I think I might go back to the old days (before the Fukra-basis tunnel) and stop the trains in snow

If I understood correctly, the BBC news website said there are 216 different types of snow!

and i think your right, so far its just a chewed up gear wheel on the plow, ...not worth damageing stuff//

 

[tram47]

photos d'hier soir , si cela peut vous servir pour contruire des chasse-neige .
(photos de Michel Montanier )
Photos of last night, if that can serve you for hunt contruire snows.