Smoke in US diesels using DCC

supagav

supagav

USA standard gauge in the late 1960's, in 1:29th.
Hi Folks,

I just wanted to ask people's opinions on how they approached the use smoke units in US locos under DCC?

In the past I had just removed the stock smoke units as I wasn't really interested in them. They used to either be on or off and couldn't change in output to coincide with the speed of the loco.

With a new generation of fan units it seems its possible to create a more realistic diesels style exhaust smoke which can vary in output with the speed and load on the engine. I'm really taken with the new DCC ready Massoth pulsed smoke units as they can run alongside an existing decoder and sound unit to provide what appears to be a quite realistic effect.

I would be really interested to hear how other people have got on with smoke in US engines under DCC?

Thanks in advance for your input!
 
Hi Gavin,

I recently used the stock smoke maker in a USAT SD40-2, which has separate wiring for the motor and the heating element. This worked very well with the Zimo decoder I used, since the sound project loaded in it coordinated the smoke maker with the sounds and load. The Zimo decoder has separate connections for the heating element and fan so it's really set up for third party smoke makers.
I have used the Massoth smoke maker in my RhB G3/4 Heidi, plugged into a Massoth XLS decoder. This system also works very well since the smoke is again based on load and chuff coordination throught the decoder. So I would say the choice of smoke maker would depend on which decoder you were going to use. If you are using a Massoth decoder then I would go with the Massoth smoke maker. If you're using a ESU or Zimo decoder then you might be better off using the stock unit assuming it's the later version with split fan/heater wiring. On the other hand, any decoder with a SUSI bus should also be able to control the Massoth smoke maker--it's maybe just not as easy.

Keith
 
Hi Keith,

Thanks for your reply. I know the loco that you are talking about as I think I saw one of your posts over on MLS. It is a very nice conversion by the way! The CN wide cab really looks the part.

I had read about ZIMO decoders being able to control stock smoke units with a separated fan control output but I have never used one so I don't have any direct experience with them. How do they fair in the larger USAT engines as some of these have pretty high stall currents so I believe?

The problem for us is that quite a few of our locos used to have the older style of smoke units like those in the USAT GP9 which are not fan driven, plus the NCE decoders which we were using in them don't have SUSI or a dedicated separate fan control. I think for these locos the newer Massoth smoke unit with the integrated DCC control might be the answer with a CV tweaks to get the output synced up. Another minor thought is also the cost, replacing the non fan-driven units, especially in locos needing two smoke units, could soon add up.

Anyway, this is all still in the brainstorming stage so many thanks again for your help!
 
Most fan-driven units can produce plenty of smoke..
You could possibly use heat-resistant silicone tubing and split one smoke generator between the two exhaust ports??
 
Gavin, you are right in that the typical USAT or Aristo locos use a lot of power, and then you may lean towards a decoder like the Massoth XXL and use their new smoke maker. A friend in our train club ended up putting XXL's in all his Dash-9's because other decoders couldn't handle the current. I could get away with the Zimo because I knew I'd never be pulling huge trains and my grades are pretty mild. The other nice thing about the new smoke maker with its own decoder is that it doesn't rely on the motor decoder for power. Many decoders can't handle the current of a fan based smoke maker and the new Massoth unit gets around that nicely. Sounds like the new Massoth unit is going to be your best bet...good luck!

Keith
 
If you are looking to do this as cost effectively as possible the Zimo route looks the best bet. An Mx695 has the same motor current output as an XXL, is cheaper and as you say has built in fan control. The effects you can achieve with a standard smoke unit and these decoders are also very good if you don't want to splash out on a fan driven one straight away.
 
I didn't realized the 695 had the same stall rating as an XXL. I used a 695kv in my diesel...but it will (read should!) be about twice as expensive compared to the XXL since the 695 also has sound.
So I guess you need to decide if you want sound or not too....yet another decision!
 
The MX695KN has all the same features but no sound amplifier Keith. Available from a few online dealers for around £87.
 
Thanks for the input folks, again very much appreciated. I will definitely have a look into ZIMO decoders for some our locos that still need chipped, although probably a motor only chip as I still really love the Phoenix Sound boards. As for those engines already done, I think I'll start saving the pennies to invest in some Massoth DCC smoke units and see how I get on!
 
I've been doing a little research into ZIMO decoders and they do seem to be very pretty good, many thanks for the suggestion Shropshire!

You are quite right as they have the same current handling as the Massoth XXL, which is good to know. I had previously been using NCE 408SR and 808SR as for a long time they were ones offering a good, reliable large scale decoders (before the XXL and others were available) with US style lighting effects. All the real SP locos had quite a variety of oscillating headlights so we really needed a decoder with the special Gyralight function plus controllable headlight dimming. It's good to see now that ZIMO offer all these US lighting effects, plus smoke unit control too! I think I will definitely be using them in the future!

Just a couple of quick questions: I know it is very specific but if anyone has any experience with the special lighting effects on ZIMO chips I would be really interested to hear your experiences? Also, if a loco like an Aristo E8 has two smoke units, will these still be ok to run from one ZIMO chip?

Many thanks again for your help folks, much appreciated!
 
Hi Gavin,

Here is a link to a conversion of a USAT SD40-2 using a Zimo decoder by Oliver Zoffi. There is a video part way down showing some of the lighting effects. This was a 690 decoder but the sound and light functions will be the same using the 695, because the sound is identical to the one in my 695kv. His coversion is a little "over the top" but it was a help when I did mine:

http://www.zoffi.net/MOBAZI/umbauten/SD40-2/SD40.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0ksCfBq-vA&noredirect=1

Regarding your question on driving two smoke makers, I would contact a Zimo rep. Art, the one here in Canada is excellent...here is a link to his website:

http://www.mrsonline.net/

Good luck!
Keith
 
Many thanks for the link Keith, that's just what I was looking for! That will definitely be some help when the time comes.

I see what you mean about over the top though! I must admit that I do like realistic and prototypical lighting but that is just a little bit too much for me! Each to their own I guess...!

Thanks again,
G
 
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