Running the Dimax Navigator with LGB MTS III

[ExeterGeek]

(Newbie question - only had the railway since May)
I've got the LGB Digital MTS III starter set with which I have LGB 55016 controllors which I am running on a wireless basis. These handsets are also ideal for children and the hamfisted adults I seem to know.

One of the second hand locos I have has a Massoth sound card with functions above 8.
I can also see myself getting more than the 15 locos that the handset controls as I look at trams, speeders, gandy dancers etc.
Ultimately I would also like to control some things (e.g. points) by DCC.

The handbook says that I can run the Dimax Navigator on the LGB MTS III system with some limitations. It's more expensive than the LGB remote but would seem to offer more possibilities.

a) Has anyone run a wireless Dimax Navigator alongside wireless LGB controls ? Any problems ?
b) The guide to the Navigator I downloaded from the Massoth site suggests that I can now use it to program CV's with the latest software. So, can I use this to change loco ID numbers - which is CV 1 ? - which is short addressing only (see http://www.sprog-dcc.co.uk/shortlong.htm) but which limits (!) me to 127 ID numbers.

Chris
see my blog at http://patiorails.blogspot.com/

 

[mmts]

Hi Chris & welcome to the mad house........
I use the Navi and also have the option of a tethered lgb controller (but this hardly gets used!!!!) and its brilliant, as to the changing of cv's......I CAN change loco numbers "on track" and sure other cv's can be changed(1 to 4??)
Best of all we like pictures

 

[muns]

There should not be any issues running wireless LGB & Massoth handsets as they use different wireless frequencies/technologies.

You will need both LGB and Dimax receivers to do this. The LGB receiver should be connected to one of the LGB bus connectors and the Massoth receiver should be connected to the Dimax connector (any hardwired Dimax bus items can then be connected to receiver).

 

[mike]

i used a mts3 and a nav , it was a joy to use.. so much ive gone the hole hog.. full massoth system

 

[Nemo]

Hi Chris
I use LGB, MTS III and a Massoth navigator and it works a treat for me. The Navi is wireless and for this you need the Massoth transmitter which then plugs into the MTS III box. Changing CVs is dead easy, just a couple of seconds to change a loco address etc. I also run two switch decoders off the Navi which operates 13 points (some in pairs) Great system.......

 

[ExeterGeek]

What equipment do I need to run (LGB) points ?

Since I'm effectively modelling a large frieght yard then a double switch saves me alot of space. These come with electric motors and i presume i then need the chip (LGB ?) to drive them. Are yours track powered ? I don't want to put two much burden on the track power by using it for points, but a couple of double switches and a 3 way point may give me alot of flexibiltiy and enjoyment in the limited space (if expensive). Thanks also to the posting about playing around with stuff on the kitchen table to get stuff working...

Chris

 

[bigjack]

What equipment do I need to run (LGB) points ?

Since I'm effectively modelling a large frieght yard then a double switch saves me alot of space. These come with electric motors and i presume i then need the chip (LGB ?) to drive them. Are yours track powered ? I don't want to put two much burden on the track power by using it for points, but a couple of double switches and a 3 way point may give me alot of flexibiltiy and enjoyment in the limited space (if expensive). Thanks also to the posting about playing around with stuff on the kitchen table to get stuff working...

Chris

Hi Chris.

What you need is on of these http://www.dragon-gscale.co.uk/massoth-8156001-dimax-motor--switch-decoder-2240-p.asp Set the CV's and then wire the feed for the unit to the track, and then the outputs to the point motors

 

[stockers]

The navigator works great with the LGB MTS3. Recommended.
You can change all CV (I think, atleast nearly all). You can run over 1000 loco addresses and even more point/signal decoders.

 

[beavercreek]

How many arms do you have Alan?

 

[ExeterGeek]

Lots of friends (he trusts not to mess up his locos/railway) me thinks rather than arms.

Do you have open days ?

Chris

 

[ntpntpntp]

What equipment do I need to run (LGB) points ?
Chris

I assume as you've posted in this particular thread (related to MTS & Massoth gear) that you use these brands of DCC gear?

BigJack has quite rightly suggested the Massoth 4-point point decoder, but for completeness it's worth mentioning that other brands of point decoder are available that can drive an LGB point motor: for example I use NCE SwitchKats to drive my LGB points. However I am using an NCE command station so I cannot comment on whether a SwitchKat will work with a Massoth or MTS command station? (I would expect it to work, as far as I know Massoth & MTS use standard NMRA DCC accessory addresses and control commands). I believe other folk on GSC have had success using other brands of point decoder, maybe someone will add their experiences?

You mention being worried about the extra burden on the track power: I wouldn't worry about it as the decoders should draw very little current until actually activated, and then only a brief burst of power is drawn to operate the point motor.

I do actually run my point decoders on a separate wiring bus (not directly from the track), but this is to allow me to run the trackwork on analogue DC (for visitors) whilst still operating the points with DCC. Under normal conditions the point decoder bus is simply joined to the track power feed at the command station. Some DCC experts recommend using a totally separate booster so that in the event of a track short (eg. a derailment) you can still operate points. To be honest I think that's only a concern with a really complex layout.

 

[beavercreek]

Lots of friends (he trusts not to mess up his locos/railway) me thinks rather than arms.

Do you have open days ?

Chris

Yes Chris, I do ..about three a year and unofficial ones at other times as it happens.
But because I run Train Engineer analogue I do not need as many controllers.............but also as I am dipping a toe in DCC at the mo, I will see if I need as many arms.....

 

[ExeterGeek]

LOCO ID's above 22 work OK with MTS 3 station ?

Just to make sure I'm not being really dim - and a large part of this DCC might as well be Double Dutch to me at the moment...

In the blurb I have with the LGB MTS controllers then they will operate 15/22 loco ID's.
Elsewhere I have read I can have 8 "live" loco ID's on the LGB MTS3 system ? (Probably impossible on my proposed layout but there could be locos standing in sidings, making "standing" noises).
BUT (and it's a big BUT) the Dimax will run loco ID's above 22 and the LGB central station will process them ? (rather than needing a Massoth box of tricks).
Can people confirm that If I have a loco ID of say 30 that the LBG central station will process instructions ?

Chris
(I picked up a diesel shunter with Krois couplers from my DCC guru yesterday and I'm back to reading my DCC (for beginners/idiots) book after my chat with him over various issues. Not that my DCC guru is patronising (he really is very helpful): but I have learned much in the last few months and it reminded me it would do me good to read the introductory stuff again as much more of it would now make sense. In the same manner, I have to thank the man (or woman) who said, put stuff on the kitchen (or dining room) table, and play with the DCC settings to learn how things could work... ).

The navigator works great with the LGB MTS3. Recommended.
You can change all CV (I think, atleast nearly all). You can run over 1000 loco addresses and even more point/signal decoders.

 

[mike]

yes, you can use the massoth navagature ,with a mts3 set up, as i said early, i did, for 2 years..you get to use loco adress upto 30.you get acess to the higher funtions on the massoth sound equiped locos, you will need both sets off wireless recivers..,

 

[Gizzy]

What equipment do I need to run (LGB) points ?

Since I'm effectively modelling a large frieght yard then a double switch saves me alot of space. These come with electric motors and i presume i then need the chip (LGB ?) to drive them. Are yours track powered ? I don't want to put two much burden on the track power by using it for points, but a couple of double switches and a 3 way point may give me alot of flexibiltiy and enjoyment in the limited space (if expensive). Thanks also to the posting about playing around with stuff on the kitchen table to get stuff working...

Chris

Hi Chris.

What you need is on of these http://www.dragon-gscale.co.uk/massoth-8156001-dimax-motor--switch-decoder-2240-p.asp Set the CV's and then wire the feed for the unit to the track, and then the outputs to the point motors

Hullo Chris,

I use the LGB 55025 point decoder (which I brought from Bigjack) to operate 8 points in pairs from its 4 outputs.

http://www.champex-linden.de/lgb_pr...531A782887EBA8525693100642B0F/$FILE/55025.PDF

It's similar to the Massoth point decoder mentioned above. As I am operating 2 motors from each output, I set the CV for the pulse to its maximum. This CV was a little bit tricky to work out from the instructions, but I had help here from Muns and I was soon up and running.

The decoder takes its power from the track, close to the points it's controlling, to minimise long lengths of wiring.
I've also programmed it to set routes; one of the route settings sets all points straight, with another setting them all to diverge. Useful for functional checking or reseting all points before running sessions....

 

[Cliff George]

Re:LOCO ID's above 22 work OK with MTS 3 station ?

.... the Dimax will run loco ID's above 22 and the LGB central station will process them ? ....

.... Can people confirm that If I have a loco ID of say 30 that the LBG central station will process instructions ? ....

I don't have any of the equipment myself, but I understand that the restriction on only using up to loco address 22 is in the LGB handsets, not the command station or decoders. Therefore I would think that you could use loco addresses greater that 22 with the Navigator and an LGB central station. The Navigator manual does not mention any restriction on the use of loco addresses in the section that deals with restrictions when used with the LGB central station (section 1.1.3 I think). The best thing to do is to just try it of course.


Interested how you get on with the Krois couplers, have you got any pictures? I believe these can only be activated for a short time, otherwise they might be damaged. That worries me a bit. I was thinking of going for a solution that uses servos.

 

[ExeterGeek]

Re:LOCO ID's above 22 work OK with MTS 3 station ?

I picked up the loco a couple of days ago, and last night was the final night of the bricklaying evening class (useful for the levelling parts, let alone constructing any brick piers).
I'll have a play with the couplers this weekend - I've tested that they move etc, but not had chance.
The timing is to stop burnout - but is built in as part of the decoder programming - in the same way that you can say activate a sound for only a second or two, then I gather the same is true on the couplers, which have a magnet for the return journey. My DCC guru who built it would know much more on this and I'll ask him when I collect the loco he currently has to put a sound card and speaker in.

Once I've got a feel for them then I'll reply, and probably post some video (which I'll try and tweak into slow motion) and pictures on my blog.... which I will alert you to.
I also have the LGB shunter, which does use servos, so can compare the two as well.

Heyn has the servo couplers here - http://www.esha-modelle.de/lokomoti...lle.de/lokomotiven/automatische-kupplung.html < Link To http://www.esha-modelle.d...matische-kupplung.html - I've have to study the German to translate it (or use Google translate) but the quick and dirty translation is that only a few specific decoders work with it, that have a servo output on them.
The Zimo page also covers couplings - http://www.zimo.at/web2010/products... for a solution that uses servos. [/quote]

 

[UKSGR]

Can I just check that the MTS wireless controller and the Massoth Wireless navigator can be run simultaneously, at the same time and together?:thinking:

A freind has MTS 3 and I have Massoth. If it can be doone, then I can use my Navigator on his system

 

[muns]

The MTS3/Navigator combination has a limitation on the "number" of locos that details can be stored not a limitation on loco addresses.

Paul,
If you wish to run LTB/Massoth handsets wirelessly and concurrently on MTS3 then both LGB & Massoth receivers are required (Massoth Receiver should be connected to the Dimax port and the LGB receiver connected to one of the LGB ports).
You may need to change the ID of the Massoth Navigator.