trammayo
Interested in vintage commercial vehicle, trams, t
Thanks Mike - look forward to you PM!
Repainting & Modifying Aristo (NOT USAT) B Units
- Thread starter trammayo
- Start date
Thanks Mike - look forward to you PM!
trammayo
Interested in vintage commercial vehicle, trams, t
I chopped up my plastic into 16 pieces (eight of each size), smoothed the edges and then glued them together.
. I may make a simple jig to drill the 2mm holes correctly. As for the holes for the axles, these will not be drilled centrally as per the original, but rather about 2mm lower down to take account of the smaller wheel diameter. I will drill these holes with axle box assemblies screwed together - it doesn't make any difference if I decide to put motor blocks at a later date but it will allow me to put them the correct way round.
Having a rest now.
. I may make a simple jig to drill the 2mm holes correctly. As for the holes for the axles, these will not be drilled centrally as per the original, but rather about 2mm lower down to take account of the smaller wheel diameter. I will drill these holes with axle box assemblies screwed together - it doesn't make any difference if I decide to put motor blocks at a later date but it will allow me to put them the correct way round.
Having a rest now.
trammayo
Interested in vintage commercial vehicle, trams, t
Work on the trucks resumed this afternoon. New parts drilled and fitted. Nothing done to the nearest thou' - but it still fits together. Here's some pics of the progress (warts and all)...
as they should be ....
Trying out on the track...
Need to make some more pieces out of heavier plastic for bolsters and other cross pieces. The three screw holes used for connecting to motor blocs will serve me well...
as they should be ....
Trying out on the track...
Need to make some more pieces out of heavier plastic for bolsters and other cross pieces. The three screw holes used for connecting to motor blocs will serve me well...
trammayo
Interested in vintage commercial vehicle, trams, t
I used some uPVC Fascia board to join the side frames together and woodscrews to secure the two pieces, I need to make the spacers/swivels for the trucks (an easy job tomorrow) and it will be almost there.
Just trying for size - need to make an accurate measurement of the A unit to determine height.
Just trying for size - need to make an accurate measurement of the A unit to determine height.
trammayo
Interested in vintage commercial vehicle, trams, t
Well I did measure things accurately (with a digital very near) but.....
Anyway, the spacers for the trucks required a thickness of 4mm. This was easily solved using two large washers of two different thicknesses......
As they are 10mm, I had to have some sort of filler in as the bolt size was a lot smaller - so a slice off a gel pen tube (well two slices - one for each truck) ....
Next, I had to remove the bottom 'stretcher' plates to allow be to insert the 6 x 25mm roofing bolts ....
Next, they needed to be secured to the base frame - a 6mm washer and Niloc nut. Had to use a ratchet drive and a large flat bladed screwdriver to tighten up then back off to allow a little slack ....
Whilst I was at that side of things, I decided to remove the springs that returned the swivel arms that the couplings would be mounted to. The springs were quite strong and, even though I tried stretching them, they did affect the movement quite strongly. So snip snip snip ....
Then I decided to put the original truck pick-ups in a safe place - this involved unscrewing the tank/locker compartments from underneath the base. Hope you'll all remember this when I want to use them next! ....
Then it was a case of putting it all together - Mike had sent enough screws to do the job, and Aristo had made sure you couldn't go wrong, as the ends (and bulkheads) are asymmetrical (ignore this factor at your inconvenience). So when the base was secured to the body, in went the push-fit steps, and the the couplings were attached to their radial arms.
And I was reasonably happy with the virtually completed B unit. So I took it outside and posed it at the end of a A Unit. Pose became the correct word!!!!!! .....
More in the next post ....
Anyway, the spacers for the trucks required a thickness of 4mm. This was easily solved using two large washers of two different thicknesses......
As they are 10mm, I had to have some sort of filler in as the bolt size was a lot smaller - so a slice off a gel pen tube (well two slices - one for each truck) ....
Next, I had to remove the bottom 'stretcher' plates to allow be to insert the 6 x 25mm roofing bolts ....
Next, they needed to be secured to the base frame - a 6mm washer and Niloc nut. Had to use a ratchet drive and a large flat bladed screwdriver to tighten up then back off to allow a little slack ....
Whilst I was at that side of things, I decided to remove the springs that returned the swivel arms that the couplings would be mounted to. The springs were quite strong and, even though I tried stretching them, they did affect the movement quite strongly. So snip snip snip ....
Then I decided to put the original truck pick-ups in a safe place - this involved unscrewing the tank/locker compartments from underneath the base. Hope you'll all remember this when I want to use them next! ....
Then it was a case of putting it all together - Mike had sent enough screws to do the job, and Aristo had made sure you couldn't go wrong, as the ends (and bulkheads) are asymmetrical (ignore this factor at your inconvenience). So when the base was secured to the body, in went the push-fit steps, and the the couplings were attached to their radial arms.
And I was reasonably happy with the virtually completed B unit. So I took it outside and posed it at the end of a A Unit. Pose became the correct word!!!!!! .....
More in the next post ....
trammayo
Interested in vintage commercial vehicle, trams, t
So, here's the next post .....
I thought that I'd couple them up together. Two things immediately stood out. One was the different height of the couplings - not my fault, that's how they were made. When the 'new' improved motor block models were made, somebody made a choice ....
However, a close look shows the B unit sat lower. What had I miscalculated? Before I mounted the body, I could look throught the 'port hole' window in the bulkhead door and it lined up perfectly with the window of the A unit's door.
Further pics give a clue. First the A unit truck.....
And then the B truck (maybe - no pun intended there - there should be four asterisks after that particular B).....
Notice the B unit's springs are compressed, and the axleboxes are well up the frame! The baseplate didn't have the weight to affect the springs but the combined weight of the completed unit did!
That's fairly easy to rectify - limit, or stop, the vertical travel. The axle boxes are designed to rock as the inside mating faces are convex - allowing the axle to tilt. This action is required for the A (or motorised B) units as the truck frames are fastened to the motor blocks. C'est la vie.
As for the coupling height differences, I'll now have to sort that out too. So near, yet so far ...
I thought that I'd couple them up together. Two things immediately stood out. One was the different height of the couplings - not my fault, that's how they were made. When the 'new' improved motor block models were made, somebody made a choice ....
However, a close look shows the B unit sat lower. What had I miscalculated? Before I mounted the body, I could look throught the 'port hole' window in the bulkhead door and it lined up perfectly with the window of the A unit's door.
Further pics give a clue. First the A unit truck.....
And then the B truck (maybe - no pun intended there - there should be four asterisks after that particular B).....
Notice the B unit's springs are compressed, and the axleboxes are well up the frame! The baseplate didn't have the weight to affect the springs but the combined weight of the completed unit did!
That's fairly easy to rectify - limit, or stop, the vertical travel. The axle boxes are designed to rock as the inside mating faces are convex - allowing the axle to tilt. This action is required for the A (or motorised B) units as the truck frames are fastened to the motor blocks. C'est la vie.
As for the coupling height differences, I'll now have to sort that out too. So near, yet so far ...
trammayo
Interested in vintage commercial vehicle, trams, t
Thanks - I hope to sort out the silly problems tomorrow then, maybe, I can test it!
Rhinochugger
Retired Oik
So you need to work out where you can cheat.
Can you influence the bogie ride height in any way? i.e. underneath the centre pivot pin in that photo to lift the upper part of the bogie by a given amount (it will not affect the compensation).
Alternatively, look at the bogie pivot mount on the body - will a washer help? the drawback here is that the body height will change with regard to the top of the bogie, and that all looks nice and snug in he photos.
At the end of the day, remember the 10ft rule - that is, that with the average height of a human being being just under six foot for eye level, and standing approx three foot back from the track, then the average viewing distance of a garden railway loco is 10ft. Ok for the Ox Mountain Railway, but not applicable to the trailer
beavercreek
Travel, Art, Theatre, Music, Photography, Trains
Phwooaaar...lovely job Mick. Nearly there and you will have a very fine pair....so to speak.......
trammayo
Interested in vintage commercial vehicle, trams, t
So you need to work out where you can cheat.
Can you influence the bogie ride height in any way? i.e. underneath the centre pivot pin in that photo to lift the upper part of the bogie by a given amount (it will not affect the compensation).
Alternatively, look at the bogie pivot mount on the body - will a washer help? the drawback here is that the body height will change with regard to the top of the bogie, and that all looks nice and snug in he photos.
At the end of the day, remember the 10ft rule - that is, that with the average height of a human being being just under six foot for eye level, and standing approx three foot back from the track, then the average viewing distance of a garden railway loco is 10ft. Ok for the Ox Mountain Railway, but not applicable to the trailer
It will be a cheat alright!
Basically, as I want to operate them as a pair, I need the B to look like the A. Originally, I was going to make the B trucks operate like the A ones, but this would have involved an inverted channel-like frame with the truck frames fastened to it (like the A's). However, this would have meant an increase in width which I felt would be unacceptable.
Whilst raising the height is an option, it would still have the truck's compensating mechanism under compression. If you look at the two truck pics, the juxtaposition of the bottom screws demonstrates this. And, another reason for not wanting to do this is that I would have to dismantle it all again - and its a pig to get apart, needing leverage to get the tight fitting base out.
I'll make it look right - even if it makes me never wasnt to see another B again! My late father's favourite saying was "Miracles whilst you wait - the immpossible takes a little longer!". I'll never be in his league, but I understand where he was coming from!
"Quote;
Phwooaaar...lovely job Mick. Nearly there and you will have a very fine pair....so to speak....... Quote"
Thanks Mike!
Rhinochugger
Retired Oik
Yes, that's what I was wondering - whether you can get something under the transverse spring to help lift the compressed springs. it would mean that the bogies would only be compensated instead of sprung, but it would raise the ride height.
trammayo
Interested in vintage commercial vehicle, trams, t
So now I have a mystery - but I think I know the answer!
Anyway, on with restoring the correct height of the B unit (or matching the height of the A!). It was an easy task - I just pinned the position of truck frame components. I pin on each truck side .frame....
I used some 15mm x 0.74mm pins and a 0.75mm drill bit in a small Archimedes drill ...
The two units now line up ....
The coupling height discrepancy remains at the moment but, now for the mystery.
When I first purchased the A units, they were described as USAT. On posting them on the Forum, I was told that they were Aristocraft. So be it, I still liked them. Now I remember Greg Elmassian saying that the units (as made by Aristo) sat a little high on the trucks. I couldn't understand that as they looked fine to me.
An appeal, for a suitable B unit/s in the Wanted section on here resulted in being offered two - one in component form minus motor blocks, and the other complete. Hence this thread. The Union Pacific B was never offered up to the A units because I was going to use the Sante Fe one first for the mods.
Yesterday's mismatch on overall height has been sorted of course but the coupling disparity needed sorting out. The complete B (Union Pacific) was sitting on a shelf in the house and, the more I scrutinised it, the more I thought something was odd. It sat higher than the A units! This was what Greg was on about!
Here's some pics .....
The UP B and the D&RGW A .....
The coupling heights were the same! So somebody, in the past few years had lowered the A units! End of mystery!.
Back in the shed, I thought I'd determine the correct height for the Aristo couplings using a UP caboose - first against the A - and they matched (apart from the A unit's modification was a little slack) ...
And then caboose and B unit .....
Sorry for the blurred piccy. So the B's coupling needs to migrate vertically. A job for tomorrow I think.
Anyway, on with restoring the correct height of the B unit (or matching the height of the A!). It was an easy task - I just pinned the position of truck frame components. I pin on each truck side .frame....
I used some 15mm x 0.74mm pins and a 0.75mm drill bit in a small Archimedes drill ...
The two units now line up ....
The coupling height discrepancy remains at the moment but, now for the mystery.
When I first purchased the A units, they were described as USAT. On posting them on the Forum, I was told that they were Aristocraft. So be it, I still liked them. Now I remember Greg Elmassian saying that the units (as made by Aristo) sat a little high on the trucks. I couldn't understand that as they looked fine to me.
An appeal, for a suitable B unit/s in the Wanted section on here resulted in being offered two - one in component form minus motor blocks, and the other complete. Hence this thread. The Union Pacific B was never offered up to the A units because I was going to use the Sante Fe one first for the mods.
Yesterday's mismatch on overall height has been sorted of course but the coupling disparity needed sorting out. The complete B (Union Pacific) was sitting on a shelf in the house and, the more I scrutinised it, the more I thought something was odd. It sat higher than the A units! This was what Greg was on about!
Here's some pics .....
The UP B and the D&RGW A .....
The coupling heights were the same! So somebody, in the past few years had lowered the A units! End of mystery!.
Back in the shed, I thought I'd determine the correct height for the Aristo couplings using a UP caboose - first against the A - and they matched (apart from the A unit's modification was a little slack) ...
And then caboose and B unit .....
Sorry for the blurred piccy. So the B's coupling needs to migrate vertically. A job for tomorrow I think.
Rhinochugger
Retired Oik
Ahh - the memory stirs 
Aristo upgraded their diesels, and if my ailing and fading memory serves me well, one of the improvements was a better looking ride height, getting rid of an unsightly gap between bogies and body.
So it may be a question of which age your models are, and you might have A units from one era and a B unit from another.
Aristo upgraded their diesels, and if my ailing and fading memory serves me well, one of the improvements was a better looking ride height, getting rid of an unsightly gap between bogies and body.
So it may be a question of which age your models are, and you might have A units from one era and a B unit from another.
trammayo
Interested in vintage commercial vehicle, trams, t
Ahh - the memory stirs
Aristo upgraded their diesels, and if my ailing and fading memory serves me well, one of the improvements was a better looking ride height, getting rid of an unsightly gap between bogies and body.
So it may be a question of which age your models are, and you might have A units from one era and a B unit from another.
So that's the answer! Well I know the A's are the new ones, whilst the B's are the older type (as determined by the motor blocks). Thanks for that one!
Meanwhile, I have ordered some vinyl lettering (D&RGW) off of ebay to replace my attempt and for the other B unit.
trammayo
Interested in vintage commercial vehicle, trams, t
Weather abysmal today - so I set to early on and butchered the swivel arms that take the couplings. This involved sawinf off the 'foot' (to which the knuckle coupling is mounted), then sawing off another 11mm of the vertical stem. Then a pilot hole was drilled in what remained of the stems, the 'foot' and the coupling had their holes enlarged, a drop of glue on the stem, and the 'foot', coupling, and stem were reunited with a wood screw.
So, as it was wet, I decided to try the units out on the trailer set up. Usual excuses for poor photography + and I changed the batteries in the camera and forgot to reset speeds, etc.
Using a short freight car with Aristo coupling as a 'match' car, i put on three bogie ones to make a short train (9 foot long).
The two worst quality pics show the angles that the two units form as they go round the curves! ...
Anyway it manages to get around without knocking anything over. So, overall, a result! It has been a learning curve and thanks to all of you for contributing. One thing I did notice, was that the A only picks up power from the axle/gearbox end - is this normal?
The conversion of the UP Unit will follow but maybe in a couple of weeks time. a lot of it will duplicate what I have already posted so, I'll confine it to the dismantling and the making of the side grilles (they are printed yellow on clear plastic) which will need totally new ones!
So, as it was wet, I decided to try the units out on the trailer set up. Usual excuses for poor photography + and I changed the batteries in the camera and forgot to reset speeds, etc.
Using a short freight car with Aristo coupling as a 'match' car, i put on three bogie ones to make a short train (9 foot long).
The two worst quality pics show the angles that the two units form as they go round the curves! ...
Anyway it manages to get around without knocking anything over. So, overall, a result! It has been a learning curve and thanks to all of you for contributing. One thing I did notice, was that the A only picks up power from the axle/gearbox end - is this normal?
The conversion of the UP Unit will follow but maybe in a couple of weeks time. a lot of it will duplicate what I have already posted so, I'll confine it to the dismantling and the making of the side grilles (they are printed yellow on clear plastic) which will need totally new ones!
LVT
Analogue automated LGB Euro on 4 loops
Mick,
All wheels should pick up (essential since there are no skates) via internal electrical connections, possibly thin brass.
Let me say that I am in awe of your creativity and craftsmanship, and I appreciate your willingness to clearly share the details of your artistry. Well done, and may you have much enjoyment from your efforts!
trammayo
Interested in vintage commercial vehicle, trams, t
Thanks for your reply and kind words. I thought I'd clean the wheels before I ran it this morning. When I applied power (via leads) there was no conductivity in those axles - only the gearbox end ones (power to either of the latter activated the opposite truck). It seems strange - I'll have to take another look. Will have a look at the other A unit too!
trammayo
Interested in vintage commercial vehicle, trams, t
So I took another look and checked the othe A unit. All four axles do pick up but conductivity wasn't brilliant. I put it on rollers so I could test each wheelset in turn.
The obvious conclusion was that the wheels needed cleaning - which they did (although it wasn't obvious to the naked eye!). All works fine now - all I have to do is look at the one I was moaning about yesterday! But that'll be another day as I have grass to cut this afternoon and a show tomorrow.
The obvious conclusion was that the wheels needed cleaning - which they did (although it wasn't obvious to the naked eye!). All works fine now - all I have to do is look at the one I was moaning about yesterday! But that'll be another day as I have grass to cut this afternoon and a show tomorrow.
trammayo
Interested in vintage commercial vehicle, trams, t
The A & B performed well until I decided to add another two freight cars. The reverse curve cause two much drag and A unit had a 4-axle wheel slip! Removing the two extra cars returned the status quo. Well pleased that it all negotiates the track - albeit with a less than prototypical short train! ...
