Rail Clamps

[Greg Elmassian]

Still wondering what track you have... the only one that will force you to pull up rails is LGB, you can remove joiners from others like USA and Aristo, etc. without moving the track at all. I did this on my layout, and changed over bit by bit. I have Aristo stainless, so the joiners are stiffer than brass.

Greg

Duncan, what brand of track are you using?

As much as I would love to do that. It means lifting one hell of a lot of track.

 

[duncan1_9_8_4]

Still wondering what track you have... the only one that will force you to pull up rails is LGB, you can remove joiners from others like USA and Aristo, etc. without moving the track at all. I did this on my layout, and changed over bit by bit. I have Aristo stainless, so the joiners are stiffer than brass.

Greg

I have a mixture of PIKO and LGB on my layout

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Ahh, removing the LGB is a pain... I think the Piko joiners can be bent off without disturbing the track.

Greg

 

[duncan1_9_8_4]

Yes as the fish plates are hooked into the sleepers

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Well familiar with it, when I started, huge controversy over "which was best"... so made a test loop of Aristo, USA and LGB... could not figure out how to remove the LGB joiner, until I noticed the tab bend down through the tie... and then often what looked like spot welds on the bottom...

Their ads with the elephant must have reflected the "staying power" of the joiner to ha ha!

 

[Sarah Winfield]

I've been thinking about clamps for my track, that is between repairing a point with 10BA screw and repairing my battery tester.

There seems a consensus that replacing the slide on fish-plates is better than over the joiner clamps. Main problem seems to be the need to remove all the fish plates. I am considering getting some clamps and then when I have a bad rail connection I'll fit a clamp.

Did I imagine it but is there a type of joiner which is rather smaller than the usual fish-plate and based more on a thin surface area cutting into the narrow part of the rail?

Thanks,

Sarah Winfield

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Yes, there are "joiners" that match prototype practice, i.e. they are flat bars that sit in the "web" of the rail.

A lot of work to fit, you have to drill holes and work with tiny fasteners, and they actually do not conduct as well as clamps.

Joint bars in the US, fishplates in the UK:

Some really crazy people actually use these in G scale... my advice is don't join them ha ha!

Greg

 

[Sarah Winfield]

I'm certainly not into "crazy" maybe a little dollaly.

I thought the ones I read of were an "H" shape, where the two symmetrical halves of the "H" pushed over the web of the rail. Maybe I was having a senior moment.

SW

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Held in place with friction?

Basically any "spring" type of clamp can eventually lose it's tension.

You need a screw type fastener to apply enough pressure to ensure air does not get into the joint, and allow oxidation and/or grit to insulate the joiner from the rail.

Greg

 

[korm kormsen]

the "H" type joiners, i know of, are made of plastic, and are used to isolate one piece of rail from the next.

 

[Gavin Sowry]

Yes, there are "joiners" that match prototype practice, i.e. they are flat bars that sit in the "web" of the rail.

A lot of work to fit, you have to drill holes and work with tiny fasteners, and they actually do not conduct as well as clamps.

Joint bars in the US, fishplates in the UK:

Some really crazy people actually use these in G scale... my advice is don't join them ha ha!

Greg

Greg,

That joint bar in the photo won't be (or, rather, shouldn't be) conducting electric current... it's an insulated joint !

 

[Greg Elmassian]

I don't see the insulators, maybe I am missing something... also the nuts are firmly down on the metal bar.

But I did see some illustrations where there are insulating tubes inside, but don't see how the nuts are insulated, perhaps fiber washers?

Greg

 

[dunnyrail]

I don't see the insulators, maybe I am missing something... also the nuts are firmly down on the metal bar.

But I did see some illustrations where there are insulating tubes inside, but don't see how the nuts are insulated, perhaps fiber washers?

Greg

Yes on extreme close up one can just make out the Isolating stuff including behind the nuts, well weathered. The fill between the rails and the bonding wire are the give away once Gav pointed it out. Well done that man.

As I think I pointed out a long time back Rail Bonding is a prototypical way of keeping current flowing with appropriate wire and good, neat soldering techniques.

 

[Gavin Sowry]

I don't see the insulators, maybe I am missing something... also the nuts are firmly down on the metal bar.

But I did see some illustrations where there are insulating tubes inside, but don't see how the nuts are insulated, perhaps fiber washers?

Greg

It was the mere mention of an end post that made me make that statement.
The rail ends are insulated from each other by this end post. The joint bars/fishplates are insulated from the rail by a plastic spacer. The bolts are not insulated from the plates, but they do
go through plastic ferrels that insulate them from the rails through the bolt holes. The plates are not electrically insulated from each other.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Yep, after I looked that the picture again, that was the dead giveaway, why would you need to have a gap between the rails unless it was not metal.

Great catch... was trying to get a quick illustration and did not even read all the little text boxes...

Greg

 

[JimmyB]

So I am glad I have not gone far down the line in laying my track, the point about being able to remove a switch (point) easily if using split clamps has had me seriously considering this, and I have just bought some split jaw clamps and insulated clamps. Obviously this will mean the removal of my switches to replace the joiners, but long term I think this may just be a prudent move.

 

[PhilP]

So I am glad I have not gone far down the line in laying my track, the point about being able to remove a switch (point) easily if using split clamps has had me seriously considering this, and I have just bought some split jaw clamps and insulated clamps. Obviously this will mean the removal of my switches to replace the joiners, but long term I think this may just be a prudent move.

If you do not have many points to 'lift' at this time..??
Else I would leave them until you have a problem. - Any more you are laying, then yes use clamps..

Anything bar plain track, has the potential to give you problems.. Prudent to be prepared.

 

[phils2um]

Agree with Phil P. - if it works, leave it be. But have the clamps on hand if you need to fix it later.
Phil S.

 

[JimmyB]

Having only just started laying the track, I only have three points down, and it has become apparent from some of the posts on the forum that points are the area of failure if anything is going to fail.

 

[dunnyrail]

Having only just started laying the track, I only have three points down, and it has become apparent from some of the posts on the forum that points are the area of failure if anything is going to fail.

Many of the failures (electrically speaking) on LGB Points is the long term oxidisation (screw types) or downright failure of the pip that connects jumper wires. This oxidisation can of course effect any fishplates so clamps on points are a good idea. Though in truth any joint that has failed can be made good with soldered jumper wires, bit of a pain to do retrospectively on groud level track but dooable.

Another thing to remember with Clamps is that they do make your track pretty well impossible to nick, no one could stealthily get down the street without being noticed even with a circle of securely clamped up R1!