Programming functions - "idiots guide"

[Airbuspilot]

I discovered DCC and G scale about one year ago, thanks to this forum and Gregs ZIMO forum my understanding has increased to the point where I can change decoders, program CV's for both Locos and accessories and am beginning to understand the peculiarities of the ZIMO MX 10 and MX 32 FU.

Until now I have ignored the functions available as too complicated, in-fact the locos are already programmed and working so it wasn't a problem. I now have a loco with a newly fitted decoder which runs well and the lights work (not sure why) but nothing else. I want to try my hand at programming functions on the MX 32 FU with this loco.

Does any one know of an "idiots guide" to functions? I have looked at several sources but I cannot make sense of the information.

Question - The loco has a pantograph which I want to operate. The loco knows its there but needs a control signal to make it operate, the decoder doesn't know its there and needs to be told, then the (in my case) the MX 32 FU needs to allocate a function button. Where do I find the owner of the pantograph? What is the link between the function button and the pantograph?

The documentation which comes with the loco doesn't seem to say anything useful and the decoder manual assumes previous knowledge.

The decoder in this loco is ZIMO, I have another loco which will be fitted with an LGB decoder when I have time.

I am really looking for a generic "idiots guide" to improve my understanding before getting started.

Robin

 

[PhilP]

Hi Robin,

Whilst there are 'standard' or 'common CV's for things like addresses (both long and short) and CV29 (direction, speed-steps, default or custom speed-table) etc. The rest are down to the manufacturer.

It will be worth you reading up on the NMRA standard CV's, to get an overview of those that are common, but then you will find that LGB/Massoth are different to LGB/Marklin are different to Zimo.

There is an explanation of Massoth decoder CV's here on the Forum, but it does not cover the latest decoders, and you can not transfer this to (say) the Marklin decoders now fitted.

I am slightly underwhelmed with Zimo..
But then I am trying to use them in a (very) non-standard way, and am finding limitations in what I can do with them.

PhilP

 

[phils2um]

HI Robin,

I can't help you with the Zimo except to say read the manual, then read it again, and again. I had to do this with the ESU LokPilot/LokSound decoder manual before it finally "clicked" and I understood the function programming. Having actually comprehended what CV modifications were required for custom programming of the ESU decoders I realized the LokProgrammer was the was the only sensible way to go. I assume you have the ZIMO decoder programming software that operates via the ZIMO Programmer module or Central Stations. I recommend you use it to program the ZIMO decoders.

With regard to the pantographs, I assume you are working on LGB locos. LGB has a few different types of pantograph drives. The old style has a motor with physical limit switches that plug into the decoder interface board. The interface board has control circuitry for lighting and the pantograph drives. This is the type in your MOB Ge4/4. I recommend you make use of the existing interface board in this situation. See my Ge 4/4 III decoder installation thread on this forum.

Most newer LGB pantograph drives, still made by Massoth, also have motors and physical limit switches, but the motors directional control electronics are a part of the drives built-in circuit board. These newer drives only require a Dec+, Dec-, and a 50mA capable decoder function output that closes to ground. (Out of curiosity I looked inside one of the new Massoth pantograph drives thinking perhaps they were servo driven. See the attached photo.)



The new "Highend" Crocodiles have servos to operate the pantographs. These require decoders that have servo capable function outputs whose endpoints can be configured.

edited to correct some grammer.

 

[Gavin Sowry]

I am really looking for a generic "idiots guide" to improve my understanding before getting started.

Robin

I'm a geriactric idiot, but I don't come with a guide book..... yet.

 

[PhilP]

I'm a geriactric idiot, but I don't come with a guide book..... yet.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

The problem is that there are SOME generic topics.

But the question you asked is very specific and decoder dependent.

So, there's a lot of stuff on DCC on the web, for the generic stuff, but I think you understand most of it already.

Greg

 

[Airbuspilot]

Thank you all for your answers but I am still at a loss to understand. I have looked at the NMRA CV list and the WIKI DCC and it probably makes sense if you understand what they are trying to explain.

If I understand the table of CV against outputs. CV 33 to 46 control outputs 1 to 14, therefore if I push F6 I operate CV 40 which outputs no8.
Does the MX 32 know that F6 is connected to CV 40 or do I have to tell it?
Presumably CV 40 is either OFF or ON by selecting 0 or 1?
Output 8 is physically connected to something e.g. Pantograph, an output signal from No8 should then operate the pantograph?

Some time ago I replaced an LGB decoder with a new decoder of the same type, to my surprise all functions worked as before. Was this because the MX 32 was programmed already for this loco or an inbuilt decoder capability?

Getting to grips with any new technology is a series of steps, when the basic logic is understood then the rest becomes easier, at the moment I don’t understand the basic logic behind Functions.

Robin

 

[dunnyrail]

I think you have nailed what getting to grips with decoders is “steps”, trying to read the complete manual then understand the lot is a tricky ask for a mere mortal. Some geeks can do it but not all. Get to grips with one part, as you read through you will come across the early ones to do with speed, acceleration etc. Get them under your belt by playing around with them but record what they were when you start3, what you change them to and keep on doing that till you understand and have seen the changes. That will give you a feeling for the logic in a way. Then put things back as they were (you did write them down?). Then perhaps have a go at lights say trying to get the lights to come on the wrong way round ie forwards and backwards reversed. This gives you another bit of understanding then try to find what you want to do and read just what will do that. You may need to read the whole manual again a few times but now a couple of parts will be passed over so making your task somewhat lighter. Good luck and ket us know how you get on.

 

[Airbuspilot]

Thanks Jon. Switching the lights is an interesting idea, not sure how but I will work on it. She who must be obeyed is away for the weekend so now I have something to do.

 

[Airbuspilot]

So, CV’s 33 to 45 have BINARY VALUES, who would have guessed.

Thanks Jon, will try your little test tomorrow.

Robin

 

[Gavin Sowry]

View attachment 305158

Ah, Hogwarts Motor Camp, 1973..... see, not stupid after all!

 

[phils2um]

If I understand the table of CV against outputs. CV 33 to 46 control outputs 1 to 14, therefore if I push F6 I operate CV 40 which outputs no8.

HI Robin,

You've actually got this a bit backwards. (sorry for the terrible pun) CVs 33-46 determine what happens when the Light Function, F0 (CVs 33 & 34) or F1 through F12 (CVs 35 through 46) are activated. There are typical default values which "map" particular decoder outputs to given function buttons, the front and rear lights to F0 for example, but you can change these.

One important concept to realize is that the decoder functions, F0 through F12 and decoder outputs are separate entities. For example, decoder output 1 can be "mapped" to any (or no) function button. It does not have to be mapped to the F1 button. Likewise the F1 function can operate any (or no) decoder output. It does not have to operate decoder output 1.

Does the MX 32 know that F6 is connected to CV 40 or do I have to tell it?

No, the MX 32 only sends a message to the decoder that F6 is pressed. The decoder decodes the message that F6 was pushed. The decoder will then operate whatever decoder output(s) are mapped to the F6 function in CV 40.

 

[phils2um]

Some time ago I replaced an LGB decoder with a new decoder of the same type, to my surprise all functions worked as before. Was this because the MX 32 was programmed already for this loco or an inbuilt decoder capability?

This was because the replacement decoder happened to have its outputs mapped to the same decoder functions, F0 - F12, as the original decoder. Most likely it was the common default function mapping, lIghts to F0, output 1 to F1, output 2 to F2, etc. It had nothing to do with your MX 32.

 

[phils2um]

Check out sections 5.14 - 5.15 of your ZIMO Large Scale Decoder Manual. http://www.zimo.at/web2010/documents/MX-large-scale_decoders_EN.pdf

 

[Airbuspilot]

Hi Jon, thanks for your idea of swapping the lights around. I gave it a try this morning and it works I have been looking at the various descriptions for functions but none of them stated binary numbers, then I found a page with the binary values in the squares and it suddenly made sense. I looked at a couple of locos to see how the remaining CV's were programmed but, probably because of different manufactures, the results were a bit confusing. At least I now know what I am looking at.

Robin

 

[dunnyrail]

Hi Jon, thanks for your idea of swapping the lights around. I gave it a try this morning and it works I have been looking at the various descriptions for functions but none of them stated binary numbers, then I found a page with the binary values in the squares and it suddenly made sense. I looked at a couple of locos to see how the remaining CV's were programmed but, probably because of different manufactures, the results were a bit confusing. At least I now know what I am looking at.

Robin

Glad you are getting there, small steps helped me a long time back.

 

[Dan]

I program Zimo decoders all ther time and find the decoders to be very flexable. You can remap any function key to any other number via location 401-428. You can even reverse the function key outputs. I do this for reed switches so they are active for dc and dcc but by hitting the function key I programmed I can 'unground' the common wire to the reeds. Now the reeds do not work on DCC. I also program the decoder for the 'waltz' on servos for remote uncoupling. Engine reverses, opens coupler and then goes forward all automagically.

 

[Airbuspilot]

Hi Dan. Having found the way to reverse the lights on a loco, thanks to Jon, I guess I have started to understand the mysteries if functions. From here to automagical is probably a bit of a jump, at least its a target.

I think I will start with a single manufacturer (LGB?) and see if I can get my head around how it works. ZIMO is probably a bit too complicated as a starting point.

Robin