Power to track

[Anglian]

Good morning all. A 'newbie' question. I am in the process of wiring my new railway. I have the track sections wired ready to go back to an, as yet unmade control panel. More questions to follow on that! I would like to know whether to use heavy cabling or not to carry power to the track. I have several of the LGB power connectors to make the final connections to the 140 foot run, a point to point with a dumbbell in between. I ask because in many photos I have seen of member's layouts, they have used what seems to be very heavy, (mains!) cabling. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Also, how would you run lighter spurs from it. It would seem to be very fiddly if you have to cut out sections of the outside insulation and solder. Sorry it is long but thanks for reading and hopefully shedding some light.

 

[ebay mike]

I've used 1.00mm and 1.5mm twin or twin and earth to feed my layout. Two reasons only really - supposedly less voltage drop over distance from larger cross section copper cable and secondly I picked in up very cheap on the carboot as it was the 'wrong' colour (old style red and black, not current blue and brown). Wire and cable is not cheap now, but two 50m coils at £4 a pop was a bargain I couldn't pass by. Where I've needed a secondary feed I use exterior junctions boxes from Toostation at 80p each.

 

[PhilP]

Hi there 'Anglian',

As you have said 'track sections' I assume you are analogue?

Use the heaviest cable you can sensibly get/afford. Run this to a central location (near your control panel, perhaps) and have a weatherproof connection box. Make a bus-bar for positive and negative, to connect back to. Then wire-out, via your control panel, to your individual sections.

A cheap way to get a two-core cable is old garden power-tools. - Mowers, hedge-trimmers etc. This is a two-core cable, with a (usually) orange outer, so you are more likely to see it when you have the spade, strimmer, mower, etc. out!

If you run it in some old/cheap hose-pipe, it will protect it a little more.

I would not use the LGB 'big, silver clips' (with the knurled screw) for permanent outdoor track connections,
If you have isolated sections, I would use the Massoth (or similar) insulated rail-joiners. - These come with solder tags, so you can solder the ends in comfort, and then feed them out to the track.

Make sure all rail-ends (at joints) are clean and bright, and use 'Copperslip' or one of the so-called conductive greases on the joints. - You only need a small amount.

PhilP.

 

[Anglian]

Many thanks Mike and Philip for such a speedy response. I am the typical male Magpie and have old strimmer and other such cable in the garage.
Be prepared for more as I tend to think to hard and too long about things but now I know I have experienced people on tap.
Many thanks,
Trevor

 

[Rhinochugger]

The larger the cable core, the less the voltage drop.

This is the perceived wisdom from the Chairman, Secretary, Treasurer and sole member of the Cooker Cable Club.

Having said that, my scenario is slightly different, as I have just one single track around the garden, and a couple of loops at the station area. The 6.5 mm cooker cable bisects the circuit, thus providing full volts half way round. The theory being that the voltage through the track and fishplates only has to go a quarter of the total circuit distance before it meets itself, thus no voltage drop round the approx 300 ft circuit.

 

[Anglian]

The larger the cable core, the less the voltage drop.

This is the perceived wisdom from the Chairman, Secretary, Treasurer and sole member of the Cooker Cable Club.

Having said that, my scenario is slightly different, as I have just one single track around the garden, and a couple of loops at the station area. The 6.5 mm cooker cable bisects the circuit, thus providing full volts half way round. The theory being that the voltage through the track

The larger the cable core, the less the voltage drop.

This is the perceived wisdom from the Chairman, Secretary, Treasurer and sole member of the Cooker Cable Club.

Having said that, my scenario is slightly different, as I have just one single track around the garden, and a couple of loops at the station area. The 6.5 mm cooker cable bisects the circuit, thus providing full volts half way round. The theory being that the voltage through the track and fishplates only has to go a quarter of the total circuit distance before it meets itself, thus no voltage drop round the approx 300 ft circuit.

and fishplates only has to go a quarter of the total circuit distance before it meets itself, thus no voltage drop round the approx 300 ft circuit.

Many thanks Rhinochugger. 'Retired oik' sounds familiar. Your answer brings in another point which is probably too late now. I come from the indoor OO layout fraternity and think that I have taken the mentality to the great outdoors. I had gradually grown into, the, 'less is more' line of thinking what with collecting up a lot of second hand rolling Stockton, I have probably put in too much track too close together. I liked the look of basic Stainz and couple of coaches with little stations, but then I bought four DR bogie coaches which have to halt somewhere. Do otherwise this collecting bug too?

 

[Anglian]

Should read through post. Apologies for typos.

 

[PhilP]

We all 'think' we will be good.. But we 'don't have that one', so buy an eclectic mix..

You won't waste anything.. You can re-lay track ad-infinitum.. Oh, and your passing loops and sidings will never be long enough!

 

[Anglian]

Thanks for reassuring words of support. The bug is there. I suppose it's the ability to have now what you couldn't before syndrome.

 

[Rhinochugger]

Many thanks Rhinochugger. 'Retired oik' sounds familiar. Your answer brings in another point which is probably too late now. I come from the indoor OO layout fraternity and think that I have taken the mentality to the great outdoors. I had gradually grown into, the, 'less is more' line of thinking what with collecting up a lot of second hand rolling Stockton, I have probably put in too much track too close together. I liked the look of basic Stainz and couple of coaches with little stations, but then I bought four DR bogie coaches which have to halt somewhere. Do otherwise this collecting bug too?

It is a rather insidious illness - no known cure best to just accept it and live with it.

There are a couple of issues in 'moving up' into G scale (and its adherent variations) - the main one being points - in what is an unusual move away from common practice in the smaller scales, points do not switch current - they are live to all tracks all of the time.

Power supply, and the current required can sometimes be another issue.

As for the Stainz - yes it's cute, but no, it doesn't have enough wheels for my liking. I went down the US outline route because I have a bit of a wheel fetish, and then bought a Bachmann 'Connie' 2-8-0. This is scaled at 1:20.3 (15mm : 1ft) and I suddenly saw real narrow gauge overhang and was smitten, so I slowly converted to the US Fn3 scale.

But that's the beauty of the G scale mish-mash - you can have whatever floats yer boat

 

[Zerogee]

My line is similar to Rhino's description of his, in that it is a single-track ground-level run around the lawn perimeter with passing loops in two station areas; like him, I've used multiple feeds spread tround the circumference of the circuit - three locations in my case - but I have used some heavy-gauge two core stranded speaker cable purchased from Maplin's (way back before their unfortunate demise). The cabling is buried in the gravel of the trackbed, which in turn sits in a concreted trench (with drain holes) bordered by brick pavers, and the cable connections to the track have been soldered directly to the rail foot using a cheap 100 watt iron purchased specifically for that purpose.

My track is an eclectic mix of brands, new and second-hand, including LGB, Piko, Aristo, AML and TL45. All my rail joints are Massoth-clamped, with a dab of LGB graphite paste in each clamp. Before laying the track, the push-on fishplates were removed and discarded and the ends of every piece of track were thoroughly cleaned with Kilroc Gel - a very effective heavy-duty limescale remover sold in Wickes and similar places, which does an excellent job of cleaning up the ends of even quite heavily-crudded used track - and a wire brush. Do wear eye protection, because you don't want to flick any of the cleaner gel into your face while wire-brushing the track ends....

So far, it all seems to be working quite well.....

Jon.

 

[Anglian]

Thank you so much to all. I look with admiration at the many photos that appear on this forum. I will get there but until then be ready for more basic issues such as one I just mentioned ie putting some photos of my own into a post. It might be a wrong location, but if you don't ask....

 

[PhilP]

No problem with a basic layout.. No problem with pictures. - We like's pictures, we does.
Some of us do not have enough free-time to build the railway, so just plonk an oval on the grass:



Possibly a little bigger than a starter-set oval, but I bought a bit more track than that..

 

[Rhinochugger]

Some of us have retired




Sorry, didn't mean to rub it in but there have to be some advantages to being an old f**t

 

[ntpntpntp]

I used thick low voltage garden lighting cable as I'd got hold of a load cheap! My line was wired up as a DC layout with switched isolated sections on passing loops and sidings, even though most of the time I ran it on DCC and just left all sections on. It was still handy to be able to kill DCC power on one section whilst setting a loco on the track. The section switches were a pair of weatherproof mains switch boxes slightly modified to pass through a single common return and individual switched feeds to the sections. You can see them on the conservatory wall in this photo from about 9 years ago.

 

[JimmyB]

I used thick low voltage garden lighting cable as I'd got hold of a load cheap! My line was wired up as a DC layout with switched isolated sections on passing loops and sidings, even though most of the time I ran it on DCC and just left all sections on. It was still handy to be able to kill DCC power on one section whilst setting a loco on the track. The section switches were a pair of weatherproof mains switch boxes slightly modified to pass through a single common return and individual switched feeds to the sections. You can see them on the conservatory wall in this photo from about 9 years ago.

View attachment 253666

Nick, you’ve grown a lot in 9 years

 

[Gizzy]

I've also used a short section of mains cable from my controller to the track. The cross section of code 332 rail is much greater than any cable, so as long as your fishplates are conducting (I use a small amount of copper slip to assist), you shouldn't have too many issues

I'm DCC now, but in the past, I have sectioned my track with isolators and additional feeds when using DC....

 

[Rhinochugger]

I've also used a short section of mains cable from my controller to the track. The cross section of code 332 rail is much greater than any cable, so as long as your fishplates are conducting (I use a small amount of copper slip to assist), you shouldn't have too many issues

I'm DCC now, but in the past, I have sectioned my track with isolators and additional feeds when using DC....

Yes, this is the real debate about track feed - the issue is not so much about getting the juice to the track, it's about getting the juice around the track.

The weakest point is the fishplate, and here is one of the other wonders where G scale is so much different from the smaller scales, there are 101 different solutions for fishplate joints, all of them good, all of them the perfect solution, many of them belt and braces but worth it in the eye of the owner for peace of mind and steady current, but you end up with a plethora of so many good ideas, what do you do?

For my two pennyworth - I originally used about 98% Aristo track, and got sold on the Aristo screwed fishplates.

For my current garden railroad which is approx twice as long as the orignal - possibly more - I bought some second hand LGB flexi with original Hillman rail clamps. (It's worth noting that not all Code 332 rail is exactly the same profile - it's all the same height, but the bottom flanges are sometimes a smidgen different as is the case between Aristo &LGB.)

So I used the Hillman clamps when joining LGB to LGB, and I drilled and tapped the LGB ends for Aristo rail clamps when connecting LGB to Aristo.

Occasionally, an Aristo fishplate screw will work loose, but it's very occasional.

Hence my cooker cable solution which means that the fishplates only have to carry the juice about 75 ft, which they manage just fine

If you're using LGB sliding fishplates, then some form of conductive paste is a must - again, something that never occurs in the smaller scales (not that I've ever modelled smaller scales out of doors )

 

[Anglian]

Thanks Gizzy and Rhinochugger. I am using LGB for over 90% of the track work with fishplates and graphite grease. It might well be that relaying the long dumbbell might be on the cards n the future to even out an incline and I might be tempted to go eventually for the clamp route for peace of model but I have read about a possible expansion problem wiring h the clamps not allowing movement. Maybe with our summers this may not be something that causes concern. I am however more concerned with the physical attachment of cable to the track. The LGB connectors seem not to be approved of and the soldering to the heavy rail section appears not to be simple. Can I drill through the rail and use self- tapping screws or a small nut and bolt? Sorry I am down to very basic questions but I want to do this right. Your advice is really appreciated. Trevor

 

[Gizzy]

I use the LGB connectors with no problems Trevor. But you can drill through the rail as per your suggestion, although I wouldn't use a self tapper myself. Nut and bolt with washers is better.

Soldering to the rail isn't a problem, but best done indoors with a large wattage iron.

Expansion issues are rare, and if you do use clamps, then leave a small gap between each track piece of say 0.5 mm. It's the rail that expands rather than the clamped section.

My track is nearly all LGB too, but with odd pieces of PIKO, ART, and the odd Trainline R2 point or three, and mostly just with fishplate and copper slip. Worked for me for over 20 years with a house move in between....