Possible autorunning scenario....?

beavercreek

beavercreek

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Having seen Roly's (55.5) great exposition of having auto-running capabilities using the Massoth system, I have put my thinking cap on (not a great idea) and have come up with a possible scenario using 1 (or two) Massoth feedback modules and track contacts with magnets under the locos.
Now this may be totally cock-eyed but if it is a workable plan I am needing help as to whether I will need 1 or 2 modules to do all of the controlling.
Before anyone says that they despise auto-running, it is a great boon when hands off (barring the usual derailments etc) is necessary or convenient.
I was really liking the idea the other warm evening when I was supping the frothy coffee (IPA) and just wanted a little more than the trains doing their circuits etc.
Well here is my plan.

The trains will only be short and will fit easily between the track contact and the oncoming point (switch)

Please give your thoughts, improvements etc. But I will definitely be using the Massoth feedback module

6be6ef2485054d8d83d31892dfc8adae.jpg
 
When I make a temporary layout on the lawn..this is how I lay out my station....an incoming train on the single line slows and stops at the same time a second train starts, proceeds round the line, and then interchanges with a third etc etc.
But all done in analogue world, speed reduction is by 2 or 3 successive slow down resistances. And point operation is by epl magnets, reeds, interfacing to point motors.

One thing I do..is to have the trailing points unmotorised.

And it's very effective...trains can run unattended for hours while you attend to the bbq..sip cooling ( although today we may have wanted warming ) drinks, chat to friends. So in digital/pc control world it should be even better.

Malcolm
 
Your system is a good one Malcolm.

Mods I seem for some reason, to have put this thread into the wrong forum section. I had selected DCC but for some reason it has gone into 'Live Steam'. Many apologies
 
See here for 'analogue' solution...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMj4LsmCO6I

There are two slow speed devices....the incoming loco slows down as the first is encountered at the reverse curve, then just after the 3 way splitting point, the second is added to the effect of the first, giving more retardation. Then the effect of the 1 in 30 slope takes effect as well..and the train enters the sation, releases the next train before stopping.
Maybe in this sequence, more resistance could have been added to give even better slow speed down to a crawl before stopping.
The boxes I made have a series of 0.5 ohm resistors, selected on a 12 way switch..which normally seems to be about halfway, so around 3 ohms per box.

Malcolm
 
Possible DCC auto-running scenario?

This had, for some strange reason been posted this wrongly in the 'Live Steam' section...... sorry Mods

Having seen Roly's (55.5) great exposition of having auto-running capabilities using the Massoth system, I have put my thinking cap on (not a great idea) and have come up with a possible scenario using 1 (or two) Massoth feedback modules and track contacts with magnets under the locos.
Now this may be totally cock-eyed but if it is a workable plan I am needing help as to whether I will need 1 or 2 modules to do all of the controlling.
Before anyone says that they despise auto-running, it is a great boon when hands off (barring the usual derailments etc) is necessary or convenient.
I was really liking the idea the other warm evening when I was supping the frothy coffee (IPA) and just wanted a little more than the trains doing their circuits etc.
Well here is my plan.

The trains will only be short and will fit easily between the track contact and the oncoming point (switch)

Please give your thoughts, improvements etc. But I will definitely be using the Massoth feedback module

ce791f23196144bb84a75865642ed23b.jpg
 
Hi malcolm
I have opened this up again in the proper DCC section.
I like your solution and it works well, but as I will be using DCC I will go with the Massoth feedback control unit.
 
Re:Possible DCC auto-running scenario?

Hi Mike can't see an real problems with that, but would suggest using Massoth train detection modules rather than reeds and magnets, the advantage being it will detect any loco using it and tell the feed back module . so if you program the train on track one as loco 10 for instants a guest bring a loco number ten could also run on that track with out adding magnets to his loco or reprogramming your navigator. Hope that makes sense, if not I'll explain it better at Gordon's this afternoon.
 
Re:Possible DCC auto-running scenario?

Hi Jerry
Yes got the gist of that. I have a load of loco magnets and track contacts so was going with them, but the idea of 'occupancy' detectors and the added flexibility with visiting locos etc would also be good...............mmmmmmm....thinks.................
 
Re:Possible DCC auto-running scenario?

beavercreek said:
Hi Jerry
Yes got the gist of that. I have a load of loco magnets and track contacts so was going with them, but the idea of 'occupancy' detectors and the added flexibility with visiting locos etc would also be good...............mmmmmmm....thinks.................
Click to expand...

Just put a few magnets under some wagons for guest locos to pull:wits:
 
Re:Possible DCC auto-running scenario?

steve parberry said:
Just put a few magnets under some wagons for guest locos to pull:wits:
Click to expand...
Another good idea Steve. I would have to allow for the added distance between where the loco magnet would be and the first wagon magnet so that braking distance and distance to first point match!
In fact if I am programming the acceleration and braking distance into the chips on my locos, I will have to be careful with visiting locos anyway as they may not act in the same way as my ones with interesting results..........:o:
 
Re:Possible DCC auto-running scenario?

For what it's worth Mike I would chime in the benefits of detection over magnets, especially for US stuff. LGB have this nice little space under their motor blocks for the magnets which is the perfect height off the railhead to trigger the contacts, whilst a lot of the US stock can really vary. If you have tighter curves for example, a larger six axle motor block mounted at the wrong height might not tirgger off the contact reliably. I had mixed results using magnets in the past and really prefer the detection module, although I'm certain it's possible to get US stuff and magnets to work well together with a little perseverence!

Sounds an interesting plan, I'd love to see how you get on!
 
Re:Possible DCC auto-running scenario?

55.5 said:
Just logged on to this and have as yet not got my head around it BUT dont train detection modules require power boosters plus power packs to go with them at a couple 0f hundred quid a time? or am I reading the Massoth/LGB blurbs all wrong?
I'm sure that every time I've looked up TDM's its always stated that they need this additional kit.
Think I mentioned it in a previous posting somewhere.
Going back to analogue to slow trains down on DCC!!
Click to expand...
All wrong. Massoth train detection units connect to Massoth feedback modules. You are thinking of the "Breaking" module (no longer in production).
 
Re:Possible DCC auto-running scenario?

Hi Roly and Gav
The Massoth detection module 8170501 is about 45 quid and can detect two separate tracks. It takes its power from the track and needs to feed into a feedback module.
For my plan I would need to utilise two detection units (for the four tracks) and then for controlling the points that would make a total of three (or two, I am not sure) feedback units...I think.
As I have the magnets and the track contacts already, the contacts will be on straight sections of track I will get a couple of feedback units and see if I can get the magnets sorted on the locos.
If it works, great, but if it doesn't then the detection modules will be brought in.
 
Re:Possible DCC auto-running scenario?

Your already ahead of me Mike! I was just about to add that with larger US 6 wheel trucks it's best to keep the contacts on straight sections to ensure proper triggering. Sounds like you've got it figured out, good luck!
 
Re:Possible DCC auto-running scenario?

On which USATAristocraft/Bachmann locos have you used and where did you end up placing the magnets Roly?
Photos if poss :bigsmile:
 
Re:Possible DCC auto-running scenario?

Roly,

Sorry to barge in here but I believe there is a CV in the feedback to close a particular contact for a programmed period of time to prevent repeat triggering, would this work for your problem? It only goes up to something like two seconds in the manual, but I programmed in 10 secs and it seems to work well.

I use the Massoth auto switch to control some block style signals on our line and used this particular CV as our with our prototypical slow running locos I would often get repeated triggering when a loco crossed over a point frog for example. I know I'm using train detection and not magnets, but I just thought it might help?

Apologies if you've already thought of this!
 
Re:Possible DCC auto-running scenario?

Roly, just quickly whilst I remember... The I was talking about is CV 50 called "debounce time." It has a possible value between 1-20 in the manual, with 20 corresponding to 2 seconds, although I set this way higher to around 8-10 seconds and it works well for me! Hope it helps, G
 
Re:Possible DCC auto-running scenario?

Thanks for the info Roly
Double bounce eh? Now that is something to bring a smile to the face!
That info about retarding the timing is useful Gav as besides Annies C19, K27 and moguls with single motors,I will be using various Geeps, RS3, Shays, climaxes etc all with double power bogies.
 
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