Poins problem on SLOW speed.

G

Graham@4

Registered
Hi,
I have just started in G Scale, and am the ultimate beginner, can anyone please advise with a problem which I am having.
My track consists of all brass LGB except for the points (1) which are Piko. This is because I was unable to get the 22.5 degree manual points by LGB. When my LGB loco which has the "metal type runners" goes over the points at SLOW speed it jerks on the plastic bit of the poins or actually stops. When I go faster there is no problem. Could anyone please advise me if there is anything that I could do/or use to stop the problem on the slow speed.
Thanks in anticipation.
mailto:graham@4 < Link To graham@4
(The ultimate beginner!!)
 
Graham@4 said:
Hi,
I have just started in G Scale, and am the ultimate beginner, can anyone please advise with a problem which I am having.
My track consists of all brass LGB except for the points (1) which are Piko. This is because I was unable to get the 22.5 degree manual points by LGB. When my LGB loco which has the "metal type runners" goes over the points at SLOW speed it jerks on the plastic bit of the poins or actually stops. When I go faster there is no problem. Could anyone please advise me if there is anything that I could do/or use to stop the problem on the slow speed.
Thanks in anticipation.
mailto:graham@4 < Link To graham@4
(The ultimate beginner!!)
Click to expand...

Hi Graham

It's good to be an ultimate beginner - we all were once! You haven't said which LGB loco(s) you are using and whether you are using conventional DC control or DCC digital. I'm guessing we're talking about small locos (e.g. a Stainz 0-4-0) and conventional DC. If so, you are probably suffering from the classic curse of all railway modellers in all gauges - lack of electrical pickup. The key factors are having dead level points (often difficult outside), very clean track (ditto!) and making sure that all the contact points on your locos are clean: that's wheels and skates (what you call "metal type runners").

If none of those fixes makes things better, you can have to go to increasingly extreme (and costly) solutions:
a) removing the rubber tyre fitted to one wheel: it may improve pickup
b) connecting the loco's "multi purpose" socket to a vehicle which also has pickups, increasing the number of pickups and the area over which power is being supplied
c) buy more locos and operate them together with power feeds connecting them
c) changing your existing dead frog points to Train Line points with switched metal frogs (you may well need a more knowledgable friend to advise on this one)
d) converting to battery operation or DCC (not really for the faint-hearted)

You aren't alone: just about every layout suffers from this problem at some point unless all locos are battery powered, but that brings issues of its own!
 
Hi Graham,

Welcome to G Scale Central; I think what you are experiencing is a lack of contact - the plastic frog cannot conduct electricity, thus when you go slowly through the point there is no power. As you say when fast(er) there is no problem as the momentum carries it over the plastic.

Another possible cause is that the ends of the skates need to be turned up just a fraction, so they can pass over the plastic - look closely - is the plastic a touch higher? Try putting a point on a table, so it is easier to see the top of the track, and pushing the loco by hand over the frog and see if it lurches at all crossing the frog. One possible reason could be that the deep flanges of LGB locos are too deep for the frog - you can with care deepen the slot in the frog, to allow if through. I would use a slow speed in a multi tool to deepen it if required

The rubber traction tyre (as mentioned by Watlep) is I think on the rear axle of the Stainz. Also check that the skates move easily at the same time - they can stick.

Here is a photo of one of my Stainz's showing the turn ups of the skate; this is set on the point frog. Sorry for the slight 'fuzziness' its a close up!

c85d3331d19b4e4c9d811732016990f5.jpg


Peco points which I use have the same trouble!
 
Funny problem this one, does not seam to be so much of a problem with well cleaned track indoors. I get round it in the Garden by having BIG Locomotives with many pickups, these even have problems now and then with dirty track.

One of the problems with Stainz is the Traction Tyre, this effectively removes one wheel from the pickup regime. Strange though that the LGB Pig Nose and vairaints of Diesel Railcar all run very well. The answer to this is in the 3 point suspention on all wheels, effectively all the wheels are in contact with the Rail at ALL times. P4 guys worked this one out years ago, in 0 gauge for my Exhibition Layout I used to build Locomotives with Mike Sharmans "Flexichas" principles. Running was pretty much perfect.

Bless Wilheilm,

P.S. Wilheilm is the Bill Gates of all things wrong with G Scale.



JonD
 
There is a simple answer - although it may not meet with the approval of the bank manager.....................

get bigger locos :bigsmile::bigsmile::bigsmile:

Preferably something monstrously US outline with pick-ups on the tender wheels a well as the loco :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
 
This confirms my line of thought concerning the same problem I have with my Playmobil 0-4-0 locos, and for the same reason. Thanks to all who contributed.
 
I would check the skates are nice and free to slide up and down and also not being pressed down to hard by the spring that pushes them down. Two of the loco's we have based on LGB Otto's were shockers for stalling until I cut one (or was it one and a half) turns off the springs. The were acting like brakes on the plastic frogs of our turnouts. We over come the problem with other stock by going down the battery power road, but that is another story. :)
 
I have one of the toytrain Kof disel type loco and that run's like a dream over the pointwork but the turnout doe's need to be flat and level
 
It has been said already, but cleanliness is a must with outdoor railways and the smaller track-powered locos, however I have had this problem this year when putting my railway back into operation after the winter; no matter how thorough I cleaned my (LGB) points, my smaller locos stalled at low speeds. On checking the continuity through the points I found a high resistance, but putting a little pressure on the moving blade, pushing it against the rail, this resistance was reduced. The continuity through LGB points is maintained in 3 ways; 1 - This already mentioned connection with the rail at the tip of the moving blade(s); 2 - a scraper-plate under these blades, and 3 - a small bus-bar under the points, connecting the moving blade to fixed rail.
Already mentioned the connection of the moving blade with the fixed rail at the point it contacts the side rails, a similar problem occurs with the blade connection with the scraper plate, (though a good dose of W*40 can improve this), but these are just belt-and-braces, as the main connection for continuity is the small bus-bars under the points.
Before I put my points in place, I made sure the screws connecting the bus-bars where secure; then I sealed these in using an electrical 'putty' - the type used to fill outdoor junction boxes to make them weather-proof - as I didn't like the 'open' design of the bus-bars and thought them a little vulnerable to the outdoors.
However, over the years I believe this connection has failed, and as my points are all ballasted and fixed in place, to lift them was not an option. My remedy was to drill very small holes, about 10 mm from the pivot-point of each blade and another small hole in the corresponding fixed rail and solder a small jumper-wire between these holes. Problem sorted!
*I now make sure that I use rail clamps when installing points and not fish-plates, so they can be lifted straight up-and-out, instead of having to lift a metre plus of all rails to/ from points.
 
Sorry, I meant to add that although my points are LGB, I think that the Piko points will be of the same design, (Scraper plates, bus-bars, etc) and will suffer the same problems.
 
Graham@4 said:
Could anyone please advise me if there is anything that I could do/or use to stop the problem on the slow speed.
Click to expand...
Fit a power buffer. Massoth have just brought out the powercap micro for smaller locos.

Some useful tips here.

http://www.gscalecentral.net/LGB-onboard-decoder-pins-question-m224915

This will work on DCC. Although it should in theory be possible able to get these to work on analogue, if they do or not others with more experience with analoge should be able to tell you.
 
I hate to put a whatsit in the woodpile and so on, but when we discussed this away back, in the "mad" forum, did we not also conclude that there could be in certain combinations a brief short circuit problem. If I remember correctly amongst other things a solution for this was the use of little bits of insulating tape or the wifies nail varnsih. I just say to heck with the problem, I've got more worrying train problems than that to solve first, like when will it stop raining?
 
Peco G45 points certainly can have short circuit problems as skates go over the frog. Not normally a problem with LGB unless a skate is well out of position. Cannot comment on Piko points but they look similar to LGB in terms of frog construction.

Power buffers can be effective under DCC.

The long term "proper" solution in my opinion is to follow the same practise as small scale modellers and go "live frog", fully replacing the plastic frogs with metal, although this requires a little thought with wiring and perhaps not something for a beginner to launch into. As Whatlep mentioned, some of the TrainLine points are supplied with a live tip to the frog which can be wired in.

I've converted my pair of LGB R5 points to live frog, it made a big difference for small short wheelbase locos. If/when my LGB R3 point frogs wear out I'll rebuild these or I might use the drop in replacement metal frogs from Bertram Heyn.
 
Glengrant said:
I hate to put a whatsit in the woodpile and so on, but when we discussed this away back, in the "mad" forum, did we not also conclude that there could be in certain combinations a brief short circuit problem. If I remember correctly amongst other things a solution for this was the use of little bits of insulating tape or the wifies nail varnsih. I just say to heck with the problem, I've got more worrying train problems than that to solve first, like when will it stop raining?
Click to expand...
You're thinking of Peco points Cyril, not an issue with LGB or Piko.
 
yb281 said:
Glengrant said:
I hate to put a whatsit in the woodpile and so on, but when we discussed this away back, in the "mad" forum, did we not also conclude that there could be in certain combinations a brief short circuit problem. If I remember correctly amongst other things a solution for this was the use of little bits of insulating tape or the wifies nail varnsih. I just say to heck with the problem, I've got more worrying train problems than that to solve first, like when will it stop raining?
Click to expand...
You're thinking of Peco points Cyril, not an issue with LGB or Piko.
Click to expand...

Yes it comes back to me now, it was when I installed a Peco G54 point in my indoor layout which was up to then all LGB that the problem arose. Oh well, back to the drorring board
 
Glengrant said:
yb281 said:
Glengrant said:
I hate to put a whatsit in the woodpile and so on, but when we discussed this away back, in the "mad" forum, did we not also conclude that there could be in certain combinations a brief short circuit problem. If I remember correctly amongst other things a solution for this was the use of little bits of insulating tape or the wifies nail varnsih. I just say to heck with the problem, I've got more worrying train problems than that to solve first, like when will it stop raining?
Click to expand...
You're thinking of Peco points Cyril, not an issue with LGB or Piko.
Click to expand...

Yes it comes back to me now, it was when I installed a Peco G54 point in my indoor layout which was up to then all LGB that the problem arose. Oh well, back to the drorring board
Click to expand...

No wonder if you used Peco G54?

Track gauge would have been far too slack.... :D
 
If it is an older analogue loco you can fit a wagon with metal wheels and pick-ups and then plug a lead into the loco's rear lighting socket.
 
Gizzy said:
Glengrant said:
yb281 said:
Glengrant said:
I hate to put a whatsit in the woodpile and so on, but when we discussed this away back, in the "mad" forum, did we not also conclude that there could be in certain combinations a brief short circuit problem. If I remember correctly amongst other things a solution for this was the use of little bits of insulating tape or the wifies nail varnsih. I just say to heck with the problem, I've got more worrying train problems than that to solve first, like when will it stop raining?
Click to expand...
You're thinking of Peco points Cyril, not an issue with LGB or Piko.
Click to expand...

Yes it comes back to me now, it was when I installed a Peco G54 point in my indoor layout which was up to then all LGB that the problem arose. Oh well, back to the drorring board
Click to expand...

No wonder if you used Peco G54?

Track gauge would have been far too slack.... :D
Click to expand...

OK OK wise guy, this brain has worked long and hard, getting a bit past its best now, G45 then. Ooooh, some people, you know?
 
Joking aside, I have this problem with the one point on Hardyard, with smaller locos like the Kof, Stainz and Shoema.

Usually due to the traction tyre, the solution being to turn the loco to face the opposite way when running in exhibition mode....
 
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