Outdoors in Arizona…need some basic tips

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Litninbolt

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Ok, so I’m getting stated in this new hobby…lots of questions…so forgive the newby here…

1. Ordered a Digitrax system EVOXD , do I need to keep everything , power supply, command controller, indoors, and run some heavy gauge outdoors to the track along with the controller receiver/…or do you just plain avoid these peak summer Arizona days?

2. What are some best practices for housing electronics in outdoor garden railroads?

3. Do the trains put up with the heat well, or should we avoid these 100 deg plus days and even evenings right now.?

4. I am brand new to g scale and DCC, though been reading a bunch…I’ve worked in electronics all my life so not scared to dive in…but I bought a Piko steam that’s full DCC, so I have something that runs out of the box. I also bought an older USA Trains G9 diesel, a big one, that I’ll need to mod with a decoder, ….any recommendations on decoder for this, tips etc? Or is this a lot for a first time. ?


thanks All…..
 
For tips look at this website for tips then wait till Greg chimes in on here.

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Greg Elmassian web site on large scale trains and garden railroads, cigars, and computers
www.elmassian.com www.elmassian.com
 
Welcome to the forum, Litnibolt - all your questions will be answered on this forum I'm sure!
We've had an interesting item running recently about the pros and cons of running stock with metal or plastic wheels. The heat that your rails will achieve in your climate would make good reading of this set of posts as a starter.
Best regards, Wistow Vale Rlwy.
 
Welcome to the forum, tricky question as we do not get those extremes if temperature in Uk. But first I would certainly look to keep Transformer and Base Station inside with wires as you suggested to the garden. Problem is with such equipment that extremes of cold can cause condensation as they heat up when working thus indoors should resolve that issue which is certainly not desirable. Is there a Radio Controller option for your setup as this will help?

As for the layout itself, ground or high level? If ground using concrete foundations you will likely need some pretty deep foundation to prevent frost heave lifting your track. Same would go if you i tend to make walls for the line to sit on at a higher level. Wood of good quality say decking or 8x2 inch supported on posts should work fine. Felt cover the wood to stop water puddling if roofing felt works in your extreme weather.

For now that is about all I can think about. Perhaps someone in the forum that lives in say Norway may have some thoughts?
 
Hi,

I'll have a go at answering before Greg chimes in with his usual excellent responses.

Litninbolt said:
1. Ordered a Digitrax system EVOXD , do I need to keep everything , power supply, command controller, indoors, and run some heavy gauge outdoors to the track along with the controller receiver/…or do you just plain avoid these peak summer Arizona days?
Click to expand...
This looks to me to be a good choice of system. I think the command station is capable of 8A output - I think it's 5A out of the box, with the possibility of 8A with a different supply - I need to check that to be sure. The handset is wireless which is ideal for a garden railway.

You are right - keep the power supply and command station indoors, or in an outbuilding or shed and run heavy gauge cable out to the track. It could be worth installing the receiver outside near the layout if you get any signal issues to the handset.

I'm in the south of England so we don't experience peak summer Arizona days - especially not this year which is a stinker so far!

Litninbolt said:
2. What are some best practices for housing electronics in outdoor garden railroads?
Click to expand...
You may need to house some electronics outside - receiver, turnout controllers, etc. Those can be housed in suitable watertight boxes. To avoid water ingress make sure that cable entry is from the bottom. To avoid the contents overheating position any such boxes out of direct sunlight and don't use black ones.

Litninbolt said:
3. Do the trains put up with the heat well, or should we avoid these 100 deg plus days and even evenings right now.?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure about 100 degree - not something I see often - but I wouldn't be stopped from giving it a go. They certainly run fine in the bit less than that which we can see here.

Litninbolt said:
4. I am brand new to g scale and DCC, though been reading a bunch…I’ve worked in electronics all my life so not scared to dive in…but I bought a Piko steam that’s full DCC, so I have something that runs out of the box. I also bought an older USA Trains G9 diesel, a big one, that I’ll need to mod with a decoder, ….any recommendations on decoder for this, tips etc? Or is this a lot for a first time. ?
Click to expand...
Good way to start I think. You need a chunky decoder - whenever I hear USA Trains I think high current draw. I'd have a look at the following as a starting point - ESU LOKSound XL v5, Zimo MX699(various versions available), Digitrax DG583S. The first two have sound.

Extra thoughts:
When laying your track you need to electrically connect each rail to the next - don't rely on fishplates, they will work initially, but then give up. You can use rail joiners such as those from massoth or split jaw, or you can just solder a jumper across each join - I say just, soldering code 332 brass rail isn't easy, but it is possible.

Given your high temperatures you'll need to allow for expansion gaps between rails - unless you're laying you track on the hottest day of course!

You'll find plenty of advice on here. The more specific you get with your setup, the more bespoke your advice will be and you'll find folks very happy to give it. Do post some pictures of what you are doing - even just where your track will be and your track plan - that's always good to see.

Best Wishes

James
 
Welcome to the forum, have you a name,or do we use your handle? There will be far better responses to your questions than I can give, but one piece of advice I do offer, is don't start too big. There's always room for expansion, and trying to start out with massive schemes never really works out well
 
Welcome!
We Don't get that hot, here in the UK, but I have been unlucky enough to have a loco fail in the sun..
It had sat burbling away (sound and lights) for 40 minutes in full sun. - One of our hottest days. 28C (82F- easy one to remember) so I would look to having some shade, for loco's and operator's! :sweating:

How extreme is the rest of your weather? - If you get decent electrical storms, you want to be able to disconnect the big aerial (your track!) from the electronics, and have a serious break between the two. Think an outside connection point, and several feet of feeder from the electronics indoors.

Greg's site will provide you with plenty of reading, and sound advice, but don't be afraid to ask questions..

I would advise, lay some track. - Enough to get something running.
Get a feel for what you want to run, and era/size of trains..
Especially if you are going mainline, then go for the largest radius curves you can afford /accommodate. - LGB radius 3 minimum.

Most of all......
Have fun, and post pictures!

PhilP
 
Hi and welcome, as PhilP says lay some track nothing permanent and get a feel for what you want :)
 
In high altitude colorado, with 100f days ,
generally, neither electronics nor rolling stock, (or structures ) will fare well , particularly long term, outside. Especially uncovered.
I do not run digital.

plastic bleaches and warps, certain electronic components can change specs, board/ soldering joints can fail. Rare, but possible. But you know this better than i do, i suspect.

while the 100 f temp is tolerable, in the shade, direct light can drastically raise temps. Sometimes to the point where its really hot to the touch. Brass track can become like a frying pan in heat.

simply, its your investment. Things are not made to military specs.
be prudent.

this is not to say you cant run in hot weather, just be mindful of how hot, how long, and strong sun.
i imagine too, loco load and how hard the motor is working is relevant.
 
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So, where in Arizona. If in Flagstaff, recommendations different than Tucson!

Generally a low humidity state, so condensation not an issue.

Since you are in the USA, and already have a high current locomotive GP9, then you should have at least the booster near the track, i.e. keep the power feeds short. Make a weatherproof box, fut one that can breathe.

Use 12 gauge wire.

Honestly, start reading my site on beginners FAQS:

Start on this page: Beginner's FAQs

Then read the 10 pages linked at the bottom of the page.

That will give you my best unbiased start, battery or track or DCC, etc.

Put down a temporary loop, run some trains, but don't make anything permanent yet. Have fun, but you need to PLAN... it's not painful, unless you don't plan and a year later you have painted yourself into a corner and become unhappy, and feel you spent money and time on all the wrong things.

Worry about what your goals and power and type of trains are FIRST... that gives you a goal and a path to follow.

Greg
 
where i live, we got 30 plus days between 100F and 110F plus an additional 60 to 90 days above 90F in an average year.
LGB track showed no weatherdamage whatever over years. (only from hooves)
everything else had to be brought inside during daylight hours in summertime.
stepping barefoot on brasstrack was an "ouch" experience.

as soon, as i could afford a dedicated playroom, i went indoors.
(maybe, a roofed area with open sides would have been enough too)
 
Do you know when I was pontificating earlier in this thread I was thinking he said Alaska! I guess there were some odd thoughts about what I said! Ooops sorry.
 
Yes, so to answer for Arizona, not Alaska or Panama, the track will be ok outside, some buildings won't stand up, you will have to experiment

I would not leave locos or cars in direct sunlight all the time not moving.

p.s. I have family there and have visited other garden railroaders there

Greg
 
Like Greg E, I have the Zimo system and it is at ground level in my home (New England/USA, we have full height cellers). I can run my trains from 100 feet away with no problem with the Zimo system MX1 and MX10 with remote handheld units. Note the Zimo system sends and receives from both the handheld and command (base) station.
 
Consider battery power and wireless control. No worries about rail connectivity, running wires, power supplies, housing of electronics, etc. Reasonably priced rechargeable Lithium batteries are small enough to fit in just about into just about any large scale loco and a single charge will run a loco for several hours. Airwire and BlueRail are excellent wireless control systems. Check out their web sites.

Steve,
Disclaimer: I am a member of the BlueRail development team.
 
Hi Litninbolt, welcome.

In your climate track power should be no problem. Just make sure your rail joints are secure. I second the recommendation of Split-Jaw or Massoth type rail clamps. Also, more than one track power feed. I run track power DCC in SE Michigan. We don't get the temperature extremes you experience but can come close, 0F in winter to mid 90s in the summer plus we have to contend with humidity. I wouldn't worry too much about track expansion and contraction. Go with free-floating, (in ballast) track with some gentle curves and the expansion and contraction will take care of itself just like the real RRs. Bulk of my track is ground level LGB brass. Some sectional some flex. It does not require a lot of maintenance. Only a couple of things I might have done differently. First is to go with stainless steel rails. Properly installed they are practically maintenance free. Only problem is finding it now. Even with SS you could very well wind up with brass turnouts. The second thing I'd do differently is to plan from the start to have some automated running with train location feedback using optical sensors or reed switches. Plan to accommodate S88 feedback modules or Digitrax's equivalent when laying wires from the central station to the tracks. I'm going to have to put in another conduit from the house to the tracks for a Cat5e S88 buss. It would have been much easier if I had put the empty conduit with pull strings in with my the original installation! Plan for expansion! Especially regarding conduits from the house to trackside.

My central station and boosters are inside with 12 awg feeders to a trackside J-box. I also put in 12 awg buss wires under my tracks with short 16 awg track feeders spaced about every 2 meters. Turns out this was over-kill. I'd keep the buss wires but space the feeders further apart. I'd also separate the track into more blocks with an eye toward automation.

But first, get something simple down to start and have some fun!

P.S. Greg has a lot of good info on his website.
 
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The point about too many feeders, I agree with Phil. In the early days of DCC, there was this "paranoia" about feeders. Spend more time having good rail to rail connectivity, I only have one feeder every 40 to 60 feet, but I have rail clamps at all locations, and use heavy wire for the feeders. (I use 10 gauge because I run exceptionally high current, up to 10 amps per train). I see these HO layouts where people solder a feeder to every piece of sectional track. Just old school stuff.

I do indeed have conduit following the mainline, makes things easy.

Greg
 
Thanks all, great suggestions, and interesting about the S88.

I work in control systems for my Day job, Ill have to check that out…

What kind of rabbit hole have I gotten in to? !!!
 
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