Old LGB point repairs

[trammayo]

Although I have bought a lot of new track over the last few years (£2 'ish per foot), I won't pay brand leader prices these days. So, I have a lot of S/H track and points etc.
The oldest piece I have is an early LGB (yellow box) R1 point.

Nowadays, there are only six rail sections making up the unit but, in the early days, there were eight sections. This meant more electrical bonding but, in practise, this shouldn't have proved a problem. However, the much derided Piko points (with the use of plated steel screws, etc.), must only have echoed the state of the art when LGB made the one I have.

There was no electrical continuity (other than on the two continuous rails) at all. The point was in store for my next little building project (general repair workshop) and I remembered I had problems when it was last on my line. Pic below.....

Turning it over, I noticed that all the fixings had virtually rusted away and, indeed, only two of the 10 screws were removable. When I did get these screws out, they looked to be 1.5mm dia. The rusted fastenings .....

It needed stainless steel screws but the only ones I had were the Aristocraft socket rail joiner screws or the rail to track panel (pozi) screws - all at 2mm dia.

As I could only remove two, it made sense to drill and tap to 2mm. It was quite time consuming removing any remains of the steel screws, and even harder trying to drill out. But eventually, the job was done, all bonding sections cleaned up or replaced and the whole thing screwed back together. All now fully working for the cost of a quid (and a lot of cursing) - just needs greasing up underneath to keep the ever present precipitant away. Usual apologise for the pic quality!

 

[mike]

nicely done matey

 

[trammayo]

Thanks Mike & Paul. Its amazing how the rust spreads on to the brass. It won't get a lot of use where it's going to go but it will need to maintain electrical continuity.

 

[pghewett]

@trammayo - just how old is that point? I had a number of LGB points bought in the '70s - all eliminated now, because the stretcher bar always became separated from the rail after a bit - but none quite like that; the mechanism in the 1979 version was contained in a large box and by about 1985 had been superseded by the current small box.

GH

 

[whatlep]

Good post. I have a number of LGB R3s which now (after between 5-10 years) have very dubious electrical continuity around the switch rails. Does anyone have experience of bonding wires to the switch rails from the rest of the point and can they recommend wire gauges/ heating implements? Come to that any other methods found to be helpful, though preferably without having to remove the point?

 

[Gizzy]

Nice to see something repaired and not thrown away.

Well done Mick....

 

[trammayo]

@trammayo - just how old is that point? I had a number of LGB points bought in the '70s - all eliminated now, because the stretcher bar always became separated from the rail after a bit - but none quite like that; the mechanism in the 1979 version was contained in a large box and by about 1985 had been superseded by the current small box.

GH

To be honest Graham I haven't a clue - it came in a yellow LGB box - maybe somebody could enlighten both of us as to its age! It was one of my many, 'previously enjoyed', ebay purchases.

 

[trammayo]

Thanks Gizzy - scrap is not an option (me being loathe to dispose of anything).
Peter - couldn't you drill and tap the foot of the rails (I have done the web like this on other items but on the bench) use ring terminals and some .75mm wire stripped from a 3-core lighting pendant cable?

My homemade crossing

 

[Dtsteam]

I'm not sure of my dates, but I think these points were superceded in the early 70's - certainly when I started in 1975 they were old hat. I have one lurking in the garage in need of similar TLC along with a stash of 2mm screws, so thanks for posting Mick. If a point has failed in situ, I've usually soldered a jumper wire with a big Weller soldering iron, then again I've bonded most of my track as well. As the next railway will involve lifting all the track I'm tempted to refurb the points properly after reading this post.

 

[Gizzy]

Good post. I have a number of LGB R3s which now (after between 5-10 years) have very dubious electrical continuity around the switch rails. Does anyone have experience of bonding wires to the switch rails from the rest of the point and can they recommend wire gauges/ heating implements? Come to that any other methods found to be helpful, though preferably without having to remove the point?

The only R3 point I have (brought 2nd hand from another local to me forum member) has had copper braid links soldered to the moving switch blades, from the adjacent running rail.

It has worked for me for a good many years....

 

[KeithT]

I have half a dozen 'previously owned' R1s, all in sidings. Several times I have noticed electrical pick-up problems. I hadn't thought of blaming the points I kept messing with the rail joiners.
It seems that I need to lift the offending points.
I don't know their ages but 3 of them have point motors with 3 wire connectors.

 

[bobg]

I have the perfect cure for all these point continuity problems.................................










only run STEAM (or battery)

 

[Cliff George]

Does anyone have experience of bonding wires to the switch rails from the rest of the point and can they recommend wire gauges/ heating implements? Come to that any other methods found to be helpful, though preferably without having to remove the point?

One of my R5s got point lurgy, I didn't have much luck soldering anything to it. I probably needed a more powerful soldering iron.

Here is my solution, with a cut in half and filed down rail clamp. I'm sure this will work with modern R1s, not sure about R3s as the clearance between the switch rails and side rails may be smaller.

Covered up with balast and it doesn't look too bad. The nuts I used have gone rusty, I should have just shortened the clamp screws rather than using the nut to pad out the length.

 

[whatlep]

Does anyone have experience of bonding wires to the switch rails from the rest of the point and can they recommend wire gauges/ heating implements? Come to that any other methods found to be helpful, though preferably without having to remove the point?

Here is my solution, with a cut in half and filed down rail clamp. I'm sure this will work with modern R1s, not sure about R3s as the clearance between the switch rails and side rails may be smaller.

Good thinking! I'll give that a try.

 

[ntpntpntp]

I once had an R3 point start to lose power through the switch blades. I found it was down to the "iffy" design of the contact underneath, so I bonded across with a lump of earth wire and a large soldering iron!

?

Cliff's suggestion is an easy way round the problem. Massoth sell single clamps for power feeds, I 've used a few of them.

 

[muns]

I once had an R3 point start to lose power through the switch blades. I found it was down to the "iffy" design of the contact underneath, so I bonded across with a lump of earth wire and a large soldering iron!

I have done similar but insted of bonding/soldering to the rail (hard) and pivot screws, I soldered to the spot welded/crimped joining strips (easy) and the contact strip. I also added some graphite paste between the contact srip and the screw.

 

[ge_rik]

Good post. I have a number of LGB R3s which now (after between 5-10 years) have very dubious electrical continuity around the switch rails. Does anyone have experience of bonding wires to the switch rails from the rest of the point and can they recommend wire gauges/ heating implements? Come to that any other methods found to be helpful, though preferably without having to remove the point?

After most of my points (R3s and R1s) lost electrical continuity I have now bonded all my pointwork in situ as I assume they will all eventually fail. Rather than uprooting them, I went for a belt-and-braces approach.

With my R3s - I soldered a piece of heavy gauge copper wire (a strand of 13amp earthing cable) from the stock rail to the fixed rail between the frog and the point-blade. I find my 75watt electric soldering iron is more than capable (even when the ambient temperature is below zero - as on Boxing Day two years ago!!)

To maintain flexibility between this fixed rail and the movable point blade, I used multi-strand wire stripped of its insulation (whatever I have to hand).

I use a similar approach for the newer R1s where the point blade is in one piece, pivoted adjacent to the frog.

For the older R1s, where the point blade is in two pieces, I opted for a single piece of multi-strand wire soldered in three places, from the movable part of the point blade, to the fixed part of the blade and then looped under and soldered to the stock rail.

Once the track has been ballasted I find these links are not very noticable, but I appreciate that this highly visible solution will not be to everyone's taste.

My main piece of advice is to ensure the rail is filed clean before it is tinned - I used the end of a square needle file to rub down the rail until I get clean bare metal. I find that holding the iron hard against the rail for around five seconds and then feeding multicore solder in between the iron and the rail is usually sufficient to tin the rail without melting the plastic chairs either side. This is particularly important when soldering near the pivoted end of the point blade (how do I know???). The wire is also tinned before it is then held next to the tinned part of the rail and the heat applied from the iron for around another five seconds or so - I use a small flat bladed screwdriver to keep the pressure applied to the wire while the solder hardens. I reckon I eventually got the entire remediation process down to around seven minutes per point - ten at the outside.

Rik

 

[hornbeam]

A fibre glass pencil is also good for cleaning up the brass. I also put jumpers on as mentioned- very important with 4 wheel locos.