Multiple decoders and SPROGs...?

[Zerogee]

A quick question for those of you who are very familiar with the workings of the SPROG and DecoderPro interface:

If I have a loco with both a driving decoder AND a separate add-on sound decoder installed, will the SPROG "see" them both at the same time, or will it cause problems? In this particular case I have just put one of Massoth's "S" stand-alone sound decoders into a loco that was already equipped with a factory-installed LGB (Massoth-built) onboard decoder. The sound decoder unit is connected directly to track power via terminals provided on the driving decoder, rather than being connected via the SUSI interface.
Should I use the "read type from decoder" function, or tell the program what type of decoder it is - in which case, which one do I tell it - the onboard or the "S"? It all works fine, but I need to alter both the loco address and the volume on the sound - if I put it onto my programming track, will the Sprog see both decoders as one unit, or will it get confused? If I change the loco address via the Sprog I assume it will change the address of both the decoders, which is of course what I want it to do - but if I then try to change the sound settings on the "S" unit, it shouldn't affect anything on the driving decoder (which obviously has no sound-related CVs), should it?

 

[Cliff George]

I don't think you will be able to change the address of both decoders at the same time, because according to the Massoth 'S' manual (section 6.11) the LGB decoder isn't going to pass on CV changes where the CV range is the same as one of its CVs. Suspect you will only be addressing the LGB decoder when the CVs match. You probably have to take the 'S' unit out and program it on its own. I've never tried this but have often wondered about this issue and is one reason I've not tried an 'S' unit in this configuration yet.

I have some decoders that are retrofitted with a SUSI sound module. It is much easier then because the CV ranges do not overlap and it seems to be just one big decoder to the programmer.

 

[KeithT]

Cheeky Monkey has used Sprog prerhaps he can help.

 

[Zerogee]

Thanks for the response, Cliff - I'm not sure, that's why I mentioned that the S is actually connected directly to track power (it's plugged into the "track power" pins in the middle of the onboard decoder, which as far as I'm aware are simple direct feeds rather than passing through any of the decoder's internals?).

In the case of the LGB sound modules (the black boxes), if you fit one of those to an MTS-equipped loco you just connect it in to track power in the same way (in fact I've connected them to the auxiliary lighting socket in the past, to avoid having to take the loco apart) - then if you program the whole setup through an MTS central station and universal remote, when you set the address then both the loco decoder AND the sound box assume that address. Thus, I'm assuming you should in theory be able to do the same with the onboard + S setup? I've read through the S manual, and the bits of it that cover this area are a little vague and possibly contradictory....

 

[Cliff George]

Sorry I though you meant that the terminals on the LGB decoder were the LGB sound bus.

If both decoders are really connected directly to the track then there should be no reason why you can't program them both at the same time. I'd recommend POM programming because there will be no confusion about two decoders responding at the same time and confusing the command station, or the other decoder. You will have to use a different mode for changing the address and just hope it works, it probably will.

 

[PaulRhB]

I've programmed an LGB loco with a separate decoder and LGB sound unit, (directly off the power socket on the rear of the cab), and yes you can program both together though it only seems to see the main decoder not the sound one. Much like programming a push pull driving trailer to go with a RhB loco you can write values no problem to both on the same track.
The worst you should get if you try to read them both together is an error message that it can't find it and will ask you to select the chip manually, go for the motor control chip.
Where certain cv's are shared you might need to look at them independently.
I seem to remember I had to alter the acceleration separately as I found the sound didn't match the loco. This is where having it connected to the external power plug made adjusting it easier though you'd just have to set it up before putting the body back on in your model.

 

[Gizzy]

I have an MTS fitted V52, to which I added the LGB sound unit.

I have the loco set to address 08, but I notice that the engine revs still change when I operate my Kof which is adddressed as 03.

It seems that the sound card has not 'copied' the address of th decoder.

Hoping to resolve this one soon....

 

[muns]

I have an MTS fitted V52, to which I added the LGB sound unit.

I have the loco set to address 08, but I notice that the engine revs still change when I operate my Kof which is adddressed as 03.

It seems that the sound card has not 'copied' the address of th decoder.

Hoping to resolve this one soon....

Did you change the address of the sound unit before installing it Gary?

Try reprogramming the address of the loc again. Both the decoder and sound unit should recognise the programming commands and update the address at the same time.

 

[Gizzy]

I have an MTS fitted V52, to which I added the LGB sound unit.

I have the loco set to address 08, but I notice that the engine revs still change when I operate my Kof which is adddressed as 03.

It seems that the sound card has not 'copied' the address of th decoder.

Hoping to resolve this one soon....

Did you change the address of the sound unit before installing it Gary?

Try reprogramming the address of the loc again. Both the decoder and sound unit should recognise the programming commands and update the address at the same time.

I got Edward (mmts) to program it Mark, as I was having problems with my own MTS programming.

Adverse Camber has offered his help in getting it sorted in the very near future....

 

[ntpntpntp]

I reckon you'd be better off programming the sound decoder separately if using a SPROG, given that the sound decoder is connected directly to the track not via SUSI.

The SPROG works as a programming track, not POM. As was said earlier, two decoders responding to the same CV changes may well confuse SPROG and/or JMRI. It might actually successfully change the CV in both decoders, but given that one of the uses of JMRI is usually to keep a record of all the CV settings for a decoder as a roster entry (so that you can bulk-restore if necessary), having a failed/confused response may upset that side of things. I'd have thought you'd need separate roster entries for the motor and sound decoder anyway?