Modifying address of a Massoth 8156601 1-channel switch decoder

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Yes, I see, but I think the quick programming mode is separate, and always possible without any other setting.

To wit, notice that it is the 7th bullet in your list.... I believe that any other POM programming is by bullet #3, but I would bet you that the "Quick Programming Function 3.1" is available irregardless, and is NOT grouped in the "POM" functionsw, note that it even references section 3.1...

It is surely worth a try, just jumper the pin and try it, no fuss, no muss, no other programming needed is my guess... If I had one I'd try it first. If you have tried the Quick Programming Function 3.1" and it needs other preconditions, I will bow to your superior information!!!

Greg
 

PhilP

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I think you are both correct, and it is a little bit of semantics?

Greg:
I think it should 'learn' on the main-track, but this is not POM per-se (is that correct?) - It is a switching address function.
Mark:
I think you are correct, in that 'POM' is a function of loco-decoders. - At least, in the world according to Massoth.

Does that make any sense, what-so-ever? :wondering: To anyone?? :think:

o_O
PhilP.
 

idlemarvel

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I agree with you PhilP PhilP they are both right it is a matter of semantics
 

phils2um

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My personal preference to select which switch addresses I want to use rather than have them assigned as would happen with the "Quick Programming Mode". You've already proven you can write to CV8. Just reset the programing lock (which also unlocks the decoder) as Mark suggested in Post #17 (and as written in the manual). Then you can write whatever address you want into the decoder. As I say, that's just my preference.

The problems you're having remind me of what I went through trying to program my first Massoth wagon lighting decoder. It took me a couple of days, multiple decoder resets, and a lot of puzzling over the manual but I finally got it. The next three took no time at all.

By the way, I leave all my decoders, both loco and switch decoders unlocked. I'd only lock them if I had more than one decoder in a single vehicle that were assigned the same address but I don't. Some might think I'm "playing with fire" but I've not had any trouble so far. I do almost all my programming on a separate programming track. The only exception is some mfx+ POM.
 
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railaddict

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First, I followed Dave's advice and tried cv32 + an address but it did not work
Then I followed Muns (Post #17) and that worked. I did the same with three other decoders.
Anyway why value 16 in cv8 instead of another one? Is it just to change an address or can it be used for any resetting?
As I had to connect the track alternately in programming slot and in track operation to check the result I made two cables to connect to the central station.
All points have been programmed with the same address that was initially used for one of the two destroyed four points decoder. For point Nr 1, I used 242 in cv15 and in cv16, then in Nr 2, 243, in Nr 3, 244 and so on. The other decoders have an address that suits me so I did not change them but I suppose I should also change the values in cv15 and 16? (the address is Switch D-01 and I select the point to operate with M1.

Next step will be programming switch routes but that is for later and I suppose I can do this through POM.

Thanks to all for your support.
 
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Interesting, do I correctly infer that the reset re-enables decoder lock? (i.e. decoder locked is default condition?) That seems weird, but reading some of the other posts, maybe that is so.

Greg
 

muns

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Anyway why value 16 in cv8 instead of another one?

CV8 indicates the Manufacturer ID and is read only - it cant be changed by writing to it.

When you write a value to this CV, the decoder interprets the value being written as a request to reset part of its configuration. What parts of the configuration are reset to defaults depends upon the value written and the decoder.

For a Massoth single switch decoder II the following values can be used:

11 - reset the basic settings
16 - reset the programming lock
22 - reset the function settings
 

idlemarvel

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There are three reset options. CV8=11 resets the address (loco and accessory) the reset values being accessory address 1, CV8=16 resets the programming lock i.e it enables programming by making CV15 and CV16 the same value 242, and CV8=22 resets what the decoder does, the reset values being to operate an LGB style point motor. (The decoder is capable of doing other things like operating light signals.) Note that only the second reset CV8=16 affects the programming lock. So if you do all three resets the decoder will be unlocked and set to drive an LGB style point motor on address 1. After that, you can change CV32 to your desired address. At least that's how mine behaves.
 

railaddict

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Muns and Dave, I understand now better what the figures in attachment 2 are. I did'nt undestand what the two lines (of which one in bold) were meaning. I am afraid I am a bit slow in understanding.
Do you know if programming a route has already been dealed with in the threads?
 

phils2um

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All points have been programmed with the same address that was initially used for one of the two destroyed four points decoder. For point Nr 1, I used 242 in cv15 and in cv16, then in Nr 2, 243, in Nr 3, 244 and so on.
Hi again,

I'm concerned, but could very well be wrong, that you may not have actually set the addresses that you wanted. The switch address is not set in CVs 15 and 16. In any case, the following may be helpful.

Think of CVs 15 and 16 as a programming lockset. CV 16 is the "lock" and CV 15 is the "key". In order to make any programming changes to the decoder it needs to be unlocked. This is done by inserting the right key (value) in CV 15 that matches the lock (value) in CV 16. The decoder is unlocked when the key matches the lock and you can now change just about any other CV in the decoder (and thus, its programming). That includes changing the lock if you want (writing a different value into CV 16). If you do change the lock (the value in CV 16) the decoder will automatically change the key (the value in CV 15) to match. This lets you continue programming. But, if you use the wrong key (write a new value to CV 15) and it no longer fits the lock (does not match the value in CV 16), you will not be able to make any further changes until you put the correct key back in CV 15.

Likewise you can think of CV 8 as a sort of master lock that lets you do a few different things depending on which sub-master key you put in it. Attachment #2 on page 19 of the manual tells you what each of the three sub-master keys, (the values 11, 16, or 22) will do when inserted into the master lock (CV 8). For instance, if you put the value 16 in CV 8 the decoder responds by resetting the regular programing lock and key (CVs 16 and 15 respectively) back to the default value of 242. And note that the key, (242) once again matches the lock (242) so you can do other programming to the decoder.

Ok, so we've got the decoder unlocked now and can reprogram it the way we want, i.e. change its switch address. The first thing to be done with a second-hand decoder in most cases is reset the decoder back to its factory defaults so we know what we're starting with. This is done by writing the other two "sub-master" keys, into CV 8. First 11 and then 22. Among other things this will reset the value in CV 29 to 128 which means the decoder will only respond to DCC switch addresses and CVs 31 and 32 will have been set to 0 and 1 respectively which means the decoder now has DCC switch address 1. Other CVs were also reset to factory defaults, again see Attachment #2 in the manual, that optimize the decoder to operate LGB EPL switch drives.

Now on to actually changing the switch address. The switch address is set by putting the appropriate values into CVs 31 and 32. If you want to use any address from 1 up to 255 you just need to write the address directly into CV 32 and CV 31 remains 0. For example, address 127 is set by writing 127 into CV 32. CV 31 remains at the factory default value of 0. Unless you really need the higher switch addresses, I recommend you keep your addresses between 1 and 255 just for simplicity. Setting switch addresses 256 - 2048 is a bit more complicated. It is somewhat like using long loco addressing and involves changing both CV 31 and CV 32. Unfortunately this is not explained in the 1K Switch Decoder II manual. There is a clearly understood example beginning on page 14 of the Massoth 4K Switch Decoder II manual. It explains how to calculate the correct values for CVs 31 and 32 if you want to use addresses 256 through 2048.

At this point Massoth highly recommends that the decoder programming lock, CV 16 be changed from the default value of 242 if there is more than one switch decoder (very likely!) on the layout. Remember, this automatically changes the key, CV 15 too so the decoder is still unlocked. I would just change the lock value to be the same as the switch address if it's 255 or below. This may be a precaution to prevent inadvertent changes to existing decoder settings when you go to program your next Massoth switch decoder (assuming it has the default programming lock values of 242). But, unless you actually lock the decoder by changing CV 15 to be something other than what's in CV 16, I don't see exactly what protection this gives.

Now it's up to you whether you want to lock the decoder by changing CV 15 to further protect against inadvertent changes. Most who lock their decoders will arbitrarily change the value in CV 15 to 0 for simplicity. If you want to change a decoder setting later you will first need to change CV 15 back to match the lock in CV 16 (the switch address if that's what you changed it to). But, if you're like most of us:confused::confused:, you'll forget what the lock value is and have to reset CVs 15 and 16 once more by writing the value 16 into CV 8 again!!!

Hope this helps.
 
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idlemarvel

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Muns and Dave, I understand now better what the figures in attachment 2 are. I did'nt undestand what the two lines (of which one in bold) were meaning. I am afraid I am a bit slow in understanding.
Do you know if programming a route has already been dealed with in the threads?
P phils2um has addressed the first point (by rewriting the manual! :) ) but the second one about programming routes is another matter. It depends on what your command station set up is. Some of the more advanced ones have this function built-in but otherwise you need a computer interface to visualise and control routes. Best to open another thread on this with a description of your setup and requirements.
 
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railaddict

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Thanks, Phil for this explanation and the time you spent! Massoth's explanation must be aimed at people who already know a bit about digital.
There are 14 points on my layout and 5 of them are operated through my remaining and still working 4-channel Massoth decoder. So I have 9 points to operate with single channel decoders. I bought 11 and managed to destroy one due to a short circuit inside the EPL. That means that I won't expand the layout and can work with short addresses, simply 1 to 9, the other four decoders having a separate address.

If I get you right, changing cv8 to 16 only is not sufficient and I should also do it with 11 and 22, that is not a problem, just a bit of time but being retired I can cope with that.

Let's say that decoder 1 is ok. Now to programm decoder 2, I change cv 8 (16, 11, 22) and cv32=2. On page 9 of the manual they say:

**** For a second decoder with address 2, customized unlock value and inverted output please perform these programming steps: • CV 15 = 242 (Standard value to unlock the decoder) • CV 16 = 243 (new value unlock)
• CV 15 = 243 (customized unlock value for Dec. 2 • CV 32 = 2 (output 1 is set to addr. 2) • CV 50 = 1 (to invert the output) • CV 15 = 0 (lock the decoder) *****

My question is why change the value in CV50? I notice the standard value for this cv is 0 does it mean I have to put value 1 in this cv for each decoder to programm?
Why not change the value in cv16 as suggested by Massoth? I am writing down for each decoder the value of cv 15 and 16, hence the diffent value from one decoder to the other. (see post #26) for future potential programmation.
I also have to think about programming automatic reverse switching on some of the points.

And to answer Dave, I intended to open a new thread on programming routes but wanted to know if anyone had already opened one in the past.

And one last question: when it comes to changing a cv, the navigator indicates read/write cv ; how do I read a cv value?
 

idlemarvel

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Ref CV 50 to invert the output, this is to save you having to swap wires around if you want the command to throw the point to be reversed. Some handsets have + and - keys for controlling points and you might want to make it so that + means thrown and - straight, if that is not the case by default.
 

phils2um

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My question is why change the value in CV50?
Like Dave just said, You only need to change CV50 where the turnout operates backwards. For example, you set the turnout for the straight route on your CS/controller but the turnout actually changes to the diverging route and vice versa.

What's in the manual is an attempt to show (not very clearly) the programming solution to three commonly occurring issues in a single example. You should not follow the example literally, it is only a guide. First, the example shows how to program the addresses in a second and subsequent decoders. Second, how CV50 provides a decoder programming fix when a turnout responds opposite to what is expected. And third, how to use the programming lock CVs 15 and 16 to protect the decoder against unintentional changes in its programming.

Just a personal observation. The Massoth single channel switch decoder has a distinct advantage over the LGB 55524 equivalent when an EPL switch motor responds opposite to what is desired. With the Massoth unit you have both a programming option or a physical option. 1: you can change CV50, or 2: you could simply reverse the leads from the decoder to the switch motor. On the other hand, because of the way the LGB 55524 attaches to the EPL switch motor, programming is the only way to fix backwards operation. It's a lot simpler to just swap leads!
 
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