Model Bashing - Lessons Learnt

JimmyB

JimmyB

Now retired - trains and fishing
Country flag
Some while ago I bought an old LGB 4 wheel dining car (evilbay), which didn't quite meet my expectations, and decided it needed some work, which has provided me with some valuable lessons, these are the sequence of events:
  1. I was in such a rush to buy this I didn't read the description, and more importantly did not look at the photos, the broken and missing parts could be clearly seen when I returned to the ad.
  2. So delving in to my model bin I pulled out some Humbrol Plastic filler, shame it had been open for over ten years, a little stiff to apply.
  3. I bought at a local model rail show so "Deluxe Perfect Plastic Putty" applied, left a couple day and rubbed down with wet "wet & dry", and was perplexed to find some had lifted, re-applied, allowed to dry and with dry 400 smoothed again, seemed okay until I washed the dust off, seems that not only is it water soluble before it sets, but also after it sets!!
  4. The body is ready to be sprayed, Halfords plastic primer on with out a problem, however my 10 yea old rail match paint fails miserably.
  5. Not being able to get to Halfords during the week I have purchased some PlastiKote, "touch dry" in 40 - 60 minutes, tacky after a couple of hours, and unlike the halfords left heavy residue on the extractor of my spray booth, which the Halfords did not.
So what have I learnt:
  1. Buying second-hand; read the the advert, examine the photos, especially where it states the photos are part of the description don't be sucked in.
  2. Two lessons on holding on to opened old stock, its not always cost effective to keep it "just in case"
  3. Buy your provisions before you start.
  4. Two lessons on new (to you) products, stick with what you know, or fully investigate the new product before you buy.
Thankfully this was a cheap coach, and was my first foray into this type of modelling for a while, no damage done, and no real expense - just remember next time.
 
All good and sound advice, Jimmy, and the kind of things that most of us tend to forget all too often..... ;)

Jon.
 
These are the kind of things that frustrate me intensely when I irregularly venture into kit bashing. I don't do it often enough to have a stock of glue, paints and other consumables that are not past their best before date, so I end up having to buy new stuff each time, which bumps the cost up and time consumed.

My experience with Plasticote is the same as yours, it takes ages to dry, at least a day.
 
Ah! I bought some Deluxe Products Plastic Putty.. Fore-warned, thank you..

I also managed (after several shows) to get some of the elusive Squadron Putty.. Anybody any thoughts on the suitability of this, please?
 
JimmyB said:
Some while ago I bought an old LGB 4 wheel dining car (evilbay), which didn't quite meet my expectations, and decided it needed some work, which has provided me with some valuable lessons, these are the sequence of events:
  1. I was in such a rush to buy this I didn't read the description, and more importantly did not look at the photos, the broken and missing parts could be clearly seen when I returned to the ad.
  2. So delving in to my model bin I pulled out some Humbrol Plastic filler, shame it had been open for over ten years, a little stiff to apply.
  3. I bought at a local model rail show so "Deluxe Perfect Plastic Putty" applied, left a couple day and rubbed down with wet "wet & dry", and was perplexed to find some had lifted, re-applied, allowed to dry and with dry 400 smoothed again, seemed okay until I washed the dust off, seems that not only is it water soluble before it sets, but also after it sets!!
  4. The body is ready to be sprayed, Halfords plastic primer on with out a problem, however my 10 yea old rail match paint fails miserably.
  5. Not being able to get to Halfords during the week I have purchased some PlastiKote, "touch dry" in 40 - 60 minutes, tacky after a couple of hours, and unlike the halfords left heavy residue on the extractor of my spray booth, which the Halfords did not.
So what have I learnt:
  1. Buying second-hand; read the the advert, examine the photos, especially where it states the photos are part of the description don't be sucked in.
  2. Two lessons on holding on to opened old stock, its not always cost effective to keep it "just in case"
  3. Buy your provisions before you start.
  4. Two lessons on new (to you) products, stick with what you know, or fully investigate the new product before you buy.
Thankfully this was a cheap coach, and was my first foray into this type of modelling for a while, no damage done, and no real expense - just remember next time.
Click to expand...
Sounds like my kind of modelling >:)>:)>:)>:)>:)>:)
 
I use plasticote on my models, yes I find it heavy but it always seems to dry quick enough. I find lots of light coats sprayed within 5-10 minutes of each other does the trick. Mind you my models tend not to be very intricate.
 
JimmyB said:
Some while ago I bought an old LGB 4 wheel dining car (evilbay), which didn't quite meet my expectations, and decided it needed some work, which has provided me with some valuable lessons, these are the sequence of events:
  1. I was in such a rush to buy this I didn't read the description, and more importantly did not look at the photos, the broken and missing parts could be clearly seen when I returned to the ad.
  2. So delving in to my model bin I pulled out some Humbrol Plastic filler, shame it had been open for over ten years, a little stiff to apply.
  3. I bought at a local model rail show so "Deluxe Perfect Plastic Putty" applied, left a couple day and rubbed down with wet "wet & dry", and was perplexed to find some had lifted, re-applied, allowed to dry and with dry 400 smoothed again, seemed okay until I washed the dust off, seems that not only is it water soluble before it sets, but also after it sets!!
  4. The body is ready to be sprayed, Halfords plastic primer on with out a problem, however my 10 yea old rail match paint fails miserably.
  5. Not being able to get to Halfords during the week I have purchased some PlastiKote, "touch dry" in 40 - 60 minutes, tacky after a couple of hours, and unlike the halfords left heavy residue on the extractor of my spray booth, which the Halfords did not.
So what have I learnt:
  1. Buying second-hand; read the the advert, examine the photos, especially where it states the photos are part of the description don't be sucked in.
  2. Two lessons on holding on to opened old stock, its not always cost effective to keep it "just in case"
  3. Buy your provisions before you start.
  4. Two lessons on new (to you) products, stick with what you know, or fully investigate the new product before you buy.
Thankfully this was a cheap coach, and was my first foray into this type of modelling for a while, no damage done, and no real expense - just remember next time.
Click to expand...
Just remember Jimmy - the man who never made a mistake, never did anything!
 
My local model shop stocks Revel filler,works well too,I tend to use that make plastic glue also.
 
PhilP said:
Ah! I bought some Deluxe Products Plastic Putty.. Fore-warned, thank you..

I also managed (after several shows) to get some of the elusive Squadron Putty.. Anybody any thoughts on the suitability of this, please?
Click to expand...

Problem with most "modelling" putties is that they are really only effective for "skimming", i.e. very thin applications - Squadron included. Why ? They are really only intended for use in the smaller scales or scale applications that most modelling is conducted to cover up moulding imperfections and joint/edge sealing. They just won't cure quickly or properly with thicker applications - they were never formulated for this. For these "skimming" applications I use a Max Mayer made "Acrylon" product recommended to me by one of the best pattern makers in the model car world some years ago. But Squadron is highly regarded too.

At the scales and sizes we are working at and with some of the requirements of "bashing" we indulge in it is far better to use a 2 pack car body filler, such as Isopon P38, or even the fine grade "Milliput" to do your filling as they cure right through due to the chemical reactions of their supplied components and are formulated to be sanded and shaped in their hardened form. Max
 
maxi-model said:
Problem with most "modelling" putties is that they are really only effective for "skimming", i.e. very thin applications - Squadron included. Why ? They are really only intended for use in the smaller scales or scale applications that most modelling is conducted to cover up moulding imperfections and joint/edge sealing. They just won't cure quickly or properly with thicker applications - they were never formulated for this. For these "skimming" applications I use a Max Mayer made "Acrylon" product recommended to me by one of the best pattern makers in the model car world some years ago. But Squadron is highly regarded too.

At the scales and sizes we are working at and with some of the requirements of "bashing" we indulge in it is far better to use a 2 pack car body filler, such as Isopon P38, or even the fine grade "Milliput" to do your filling as they cure right through due to the chemical reactions of their supplied components and are formulated to be sanded and shaped in their hardened form. Max
Click to expand...
Fully agree with what Max says, you certainly cannot beat a good Car Body Filler.
 
I have never really got-on with car fillers.. :(

Perhaps I should attack them whilst still a little 'green'? - Rather than wait until fully-set??
Oh, and then come out full of bubbles.. :banghead::banghead:
 
PhilP said:
I have never really got-on with car fillers.. :(

Perhaps I should attack them whilst still a little 'green'? - Rather than wait until fully-set??
Oh, and then come out full of bubbles.. :banghead::banghead:
Click to expand...
I always leave them to fully harden before sanding out. It can sometimes take a fill or two to get just right, but the later fills tend to be more of a smear to get things right. Another blast with undercoat spray paint will show up any blemishes and a finish of with wet and dry should give that perfect finish. Perseverance and patience pays dividends in all things, but then I used to be a Maggot Drowner in a previous life.
 
PhilP said:
I have never really got-on with car fillers.. :(

Perhaps I should attack them whilst still a little 'green'? - Rather than wait until fully-set??
Oh, and then come out full of bubbles.. :banghead::banghead:
Click to expand...

As Jon says. On a second fill you should be using something like the "Acrylon" I suggested for a fine finish for painting or "Squadron". Italeri did a nice "skim" filler too. Air bubbles in quick cure resin ( a close relative of 2 pack body fillers) were always a problem in the early days, until they started doing vacuum molding. Not really practical when doing a bit of filling at home :)

With 2 pack fillers careful mixing with a cocktail stick, and not overdoing the hardener so it cures too quickly. should minimise the risk of air bubbles and also care with application - don't trap air in holes you are filling. Try not to use too much at a time. I find that there is a point where the filler has set just enough that you can, with a sharp scalpel or X-acto chisel blade, "skim" off any over filling or even do a bit of crude "sculpting" (no, not that sort of crude). That lessens the need for shaping and sanding later.

There comes a point that body fillers, because of their relatively viscous (not much, but enough) nature are just not right for the job - then a product like Milliput is more suitable where you need something that can hold it's shape of can fill a deep space without the risk of air bubbles forming. As they say, "Horses for courses". Max
 
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