Massoth Feedback Module

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frankando12

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Hi
I have a Massoth Feedback Module on my system which operates a Passing Siding where one loco would enter one siding pass over a contact then stops , the switches both ends of the loop then change and the loco on the second siding would start it's circuit and return passing over another contact . The switches would again change and the first loco would start. Also on a separate section I had set up a Trolley Set whereby the loco would start from one end of the track then stop at two intermediate stops and at the end of the section would stop and Reverse, stopping at the intermediate sections again and return to it's starting point and the process would start over again for both operations. Both sections worked fine till I decided to install a Piko Booster to my System I was worried about overloading the system. I had the Booster working on the System only for a very short time. I was operating a Switch on the system, when my LGB 55025 Switch Decoder operating the switch had a major Melt Down. This tripped the Boosters overload and the Booster has not been able to be reset and will need to be looked at. I am visiting my daughter who lives in California soon and will take the Booster to Piko San Diego. I have tried set up my system again just using my Piko Central Station. Everything on the system works as it did previous to the Booster being installed except I can not get the Loop and the Trolley set up working . All my track contacts work back to the Feedback Module when tripped, and data cables are communicating between the Module and the Central Station . Is there any way of testing if the Feedback Module is OK or I have a Problem with the Central Station. The Central Station seems to work fine for all other Functions. I wonder what problems have occurred since the Booster Overloaded. I appreciate any suggestion or advice on what I can do to find out the problem.
Thanks Frank
 
I will try and help although I don't have any of the equipment you are using.

When the automation worked what central station were you using?

I know that it is possible to program Massoth Central Stations to react to feedback from the Massoth Feedback Module to start and stop trains, move switches etc. Is the same facility available on the Piko Central Station?

As you say you need to work out where the problem is, no feedback from the Feedback Module, or feedback not being actioned by the Central Station.

Is it possible with the Massoth/Piko Navi to see what the feedback state it? I image it would be. I'd use this as a first step to diagnosing the problem. If not just program one simple action, such as moving a switch, in the Central Station in reaction to feedback and see if you can get that working or not.
 
Hi Cliff,
Thanks for your feedback . I am using a 5 amp Piko Central Station it is the same Central Station I was using before I installed the Booster. After the Booster problem I bridged the Track Isolations and now use the Central Station as a stand alone unit on my system . The Central Station works fine as a stand alone unit, I can Change switch directions I can Program and read back decoders , I can drive locos both ways I can activate function buttons all from the Piko Navigator , the only thing I can't get to work is the Automatic Drive Functions, which was working prior to my Booster Problem. I wonder if there is something I am forgetting to do I enter all the data in the Navigator Auto Drive and Switch section and activate it as stated in the manual. I am thinking of resetting the Central Station Back to it's factory setting and then re-entering all my Data I may have to do this as a last resort. As I said I am visiting my Daughter in California in Aug and will be taking the booster to Piko in San Diego I am thinking of taking the Central Station and the Feedback Module with me.

Thanks again for your In-Put Frank
 
Before resetting anything I would try to check that the feedback from the Feedback Module is actually getting to the Central Station. According to the Massoth Navigator Manual there is a feature called 'Show Feedback data', from version 1.90 only. See if you can see feedback changes according to the Navigator when engines drive over the contact points.

If you can see changes, suspect something wrong in the Central Station.

If you cant see any changes you will need to look at the Feedback Module.
 
I don't know much about the Piko Navigator, but I believe the Piko Navigator is running firmware version 1.81 which does not include the 'show feedback data' functionality which was introduced in the Massoth Navigator firmware 1.90. The Piko Navigator (and the Piko Central Station) are not user firmware upgradable (at least that was the case when the system was introduced), which means that you have to send the units to Germany to have them updated when a Piko firmware is made available.

Are you able to read CVs with the Piko Navigator? If so, you could try to read out the CVs for the Feedback Module to check if the basic settings are intact.

It would be nice with a side-by-side comparison of the Piko and Massoth systems, as it looks like there are a few differances. I know the Piko Central Station does not have a separate programming track output and no PC-interface (USB/RS-232).
 
Hi Again.
Thanks for your interest in my problem . I have tried reading back the CV's in the Feedback Module and can only get a X value in all CV's that I tried , I also tried to reset CV 7 back to factory settings entering 55 in the value column and OK'd it, I only got a readout 55x in the read out column and could not get any readings on any other CV's only the X in the value column . I noticed in the manual for the Feedback Module you can only use the ID number once or you will cause a malfunction . Would that mean that if I added another Module as a slave I would need to address it ID 5-which would automatically fill in the ID's to 8 or would the ID number relate to Drive Number and the Switch Number entered in the Navigator , as I have changed the perimeters inside these several times to suit what operations I had . I would always deactivate all perimeter in each Automatic and Switch Mode before I made any change , and they always worked after the change when reactivated.

Hope all this makes Sense for you Thanks Again for you Input Frank
 
As you say - ID5 and that will fill in to 8
 
Hi
My old Module must have failed . I have purchased a new module and am having the old one checked out by a Massoth agent here in Aus who is checking if he can reset it. The new Module works on my layout fine. I still have the same problem with this new Feedback Module that I had with the Old one. I can't read back CV's or change CV Values with my PIKO System. I would like to change CV 83 and 84 so they have a slight delay when they are activated . I have set up the programming as described in the manual but I keep getting an X in the read out value on the Navigator . The PIKO System works with other decoders as I can read back and change CV values with this system. I have programmed several different decoders with PIKO . I have noticed that in some Function decoders you sometime have to install a resistor to give the decoder a load. Massoth do not say anything about this in their manual.
I am a bit stumped but happy to have my new Module working Thanks Frank
 
Did you try to program the Feedback module without the bus-cable connected and with CV6=77 or did you use the programming bridge as described in chapter 3 in the instructions manual?
 
Hi
I didn't have the bus cable connected from the central station to the Module , I had the Bridge inset installed a per the Massoth Manual and the programming leads from the track outlets on the Central Station to the Module. I am a bit confused by the LGB programming it seems that the decoder is factory set CV1=0 for DiMax and if you use LGB MTS CV1 has to be set to 1 for the first Module and then 5 for the second module and so on. Am I reading this right. I love DCC but am learning things slowly with age .

Thanks Frank
 
The way you have done the programming should be fine. I have seen threads at the German Massoth forum from around 2012 where several people had issues with firmware 2.0 and CV reading. At that time the 1.9 firmware worked ok for reading the CVs. Apparantly programming was not affected, only the read back. Do you know if you have one or more of these firmware 2.0 modules and have you checked if the changes you have made for one or several CVs have had the expected effect?

As for using the Feedback module with LGB MTS it depends on what LGB MTS system you are using, if you have the MTS III you can use the DiMax port (DiMax bus) and use CV1=0, if you are using MTS I, II or one of the MTS ports of the MTS III, CV1 should be as you have noted.

You can also mix the LGB 55070 with the Massot Feedback modules, if you use a Massoth module as master with CV3=5 you can hook up the LGB 55070 as slave(s).
 
Hi Loco.

I have tried to set CV83 and 84 for a 2 second delay but when I OK the setting I get a 2X showing in the value column and the Module has not taken the change .
 
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