Massoth eMOTION XLS On-board Sound Decoder for LGB 22490 Amtrak Genesis

[Benjamin]

Hi, I am a newbie in this forum. I recently made a decision to learn and install DCC systems on my G scale. What I have are Massoth DiMAX Navigator v2.00, DiMAX RC Receiver II, PIKO Digital Central Station and BridgeWreck 10 amps power source. I recently purchase a Massoth XLS On-board Sound Decoder for my LGB Amtrak Genesis. My question is, is there anyone there have the experience of the same, if so please could you share that knowledge you gain? I am seeking a solution to the problems I am having with this decoder.

Problems:
To what Output in the decoder to hooked up an electrical coupler (18 V DC) and a smoke generator (18 V DC)?

Some Information:

 

[muns]

FA1 and FA2 are outputs of choice for uncouplers and smoke units.
Smoke would usually be on FA2.

What smoke unit and what uncoupler are you going to use?

 

[Benjamin]

Hi, thank you for your respond. I have a smoke unit from MTH two wires, please see attach picture. The wires is attach to a fan motor and into the heating element. The uncoupler is also from MTH with two wires, please see picture.

 

[Benjamin]

Hummmm! I am a bit disappointed. Till now no one have a solution to this problem. For the pass few weeks I been experimenting how to solve this.

What I have found out that the output FA1 on the decoder (were the electric uncoupler connected) triggers by Function F7 key. When I activate F7 key the uncoupler works but sound was shuts off and the uncoupler continuously activating in pulsating/flashing mode. CV settings Output FA1 CV 54=7. The DiMax Navigator becomes unresponsive after activating F7. Hitting the right STOP button and then the left STOP button, the DiMax Navigator then becomes responsive. It has the same result when I tried it on the FA2 output.

The way I understand from Attachment 3 page 51 of the manual that if the CV 55 (special function 1) or CV 57 (special function 2) value is greater than zero the output FA1 and FA2 would only pulsate/flashing. When I check the value of this two CV's they are in zero.

I hope someone there would be able to help?

 

[Benjamin]

I recently acquired a Massoth Dimax 800Z. I've used it and makes no difference on my original problem.

 

[Benjamin]

By the way, so no one would think that it could be a defective decoder. I purchase 3 of this decoder and all 3 gave the same result.

Perhaps I should consider other systems.

 

[Benjamin]

I am not sure if this would be relevant information, because I have no way of knowing which of this information is correct.
There are 8 discrepancy of CV values between form Genesis GE P42 eMotion Sounddecoder Sound project: 822 x 049 I have attached and the CV value spread sheets that came with the decoder.
Here are the list of the CV's value.

From the form:

Sounds: CV153=2, CV203=1, CV204=1, CV209=1

Special functions: CV113=1.

Special CV Settings: CV29=4, CV49=3, CV149=102

From the spread sheets:

CV153=0, CV203=3, CV204=3, CV209=3

CV113=3

CV29=6, CV49=18, CV149=38

 

[Ralphmp]

Not sure I follow all of the above but I recently installed a Massoth uncoupler in a loco with an XLS decoder. Uncoupler attached to FA1 and works off Function Key 7 on my Navigator. No issues with sound though - works as normal at all times.

A key difference between the Massoth device and the one you're using is that the Massoth device has 3 wires - One goes to Decoder +, One to GND (Decoder -) and one to the FA terminal. Maybe the absence of the 3rd wire is confusing the decoder when you operate the uncoupler?

Also, regarding the uncoupler continuously activating, there is a section in the Massoth auto-uncoupler manual that mentions setting up the F7 key so that the uncoupler only stays dropped whilst F7 remains pressed (presumably the idea being that this prevents you accidentally setting off with the uncoupler in the down position and so fouling on things such as track contacts, track magnets, etc.). It may therefore be worth checking how your Navi is set up.



NB THE ABOVE TEXT IS COPYRIGHT MASSOTH - hopefully reproducing it here is not inappropriate

Hope you resolve the problem.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

I see you are debugging the coupler first... when you get to the smoke unit, the MTH should have 2 sets of leads if you have an MTH loco replacement, 2 for heater and 2 for fan, but MTH does make ones that are all in one. Please post a larger picture of the other side of the smoke unit, you posted a tiny thumbnail.

Greg

 

[stockers]

Maybe the absence of the 3rd wire is confusing the decoder when you operate the uncoupler?

Sounds pretty likely to me Ralph. Always easiest to stick with one manufacturer with DCC.

 

[Benjamin]

Not sure I follow all of the above but I recently installed a Massoth uncoupler in a loco with an XLS decoder. Uncoupler attached to FA1 and works off Function Key 7 on my Navigator. No issues with sound though - works as normal at all times.

A key difference between the Massoth device and the one you're using is that the Massoth device has 3 wires - One goes to Decoder +, One to GND (Decoder -) and one to the FA terminal. Maybe the absence of the 3rd wire is confusing the decoder when you operate the uncoupler?

Also, regarding the uncoupler continuously activating, there is a section in the Massoth auto-uncoupler manual that mentions setting up the F7 key so that the uncoupler only stays dropped whilst F7 remains pressed (presumably the idea being that this prevents you accidentally setting off with the uncoupler in the down position and so fouling on things such as track contacts, track magnets, etc.). It may therefore be worth checking how your Navi is set up.

View attachment 225296

NB THE ABOVE TEXT IS COPYRIGHT MASSOTH - hopefully reproducing it here is not inappropriate

Hope you resolve the problem.

Ralphmp,

Thank you for your information. I was told by the dealer were I both the decoder that I could ignore the third wire, for it is just a ground wire. When it did not work I tried FA2 output which has two wires, it did the same thing.

By the way do you have just the XLS not the XLS On-board decoder?

I thought about buying the Massoth uncoupler, the thing that hold me off of doing so is that I have knuckles installed on all of my Locomotives and most of the rolling stocks. I thought the looks is more realistic and cool too.

 

[Benjamin]

I see you are debugging the coupler first... when you get to the smoke unit, the MTH should have 2 sets of leads if you have an MTH loco replacement, 2 for heater and 2 for fan, but MTH does make ones that are all in one. Please post a larger picture of the other side of the smoke unit, you posted a tiny thumbnail.

Greg

Thank you Greg for your reply.
This smoke unit is all in one. The two wires both power up the fan motor and the heater elements.

FYI, I made a temporary solution to this problem. I hook up an adjustable voltage regulator, the input power is from the track power with on/off switch and the output is hook up at the smoke unit. It works. I adjust the voltage to regulate the smoke and on/off on the toggle switch.

 

[Benjamin]

Sounds pretty likely to me Ralph. Always easiest to stick with one manufacturer with DCC.

I am considering trying to hook up the uncoupler to my other LGB Amtrak Loco that I acquired with Phoenix sound decoder. I am still reading the manual to see if it is possible.

 

[Ralphmp]

Ralphmp,

Thank you for your information. I was told by the dealer were I both the decoder that I could ignore the third wire, for it is just a ground wire. When it did not work I tried FA2 output which has two wires, it did the same thing.

By the way do you have just the XLS not the XLS On-board decoder?

I thought about buying the Massoth uncoupler, the thing that hold me off of doing so is that I have knuckles installed on all of my Locomotives and most of the rolling stocks. I thought the looks is more realistic and cool too.

It was an XLS onto which I've loaded the latest firmware (4.xx). Interestingly, the Massoth tool I used to update the firmware and set CV values, identified the decoder as XLS On-board.
As I understand it, the only differences between the XLS and the XLS On-board are that the latter has some interface sockets into which LGB wiring can be plugged in directly; in all operational respects I believe the 2 variants are the same. (No doubt one of our Massoth gurus can confirm/correct me on this point).

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Benjamin, when you have time, can you post the other side picture of the smoke unit?

There's probably some electronics on it, but I'm not familiar with the model you show.

Greg

 

[muns]

The only difference between the XLS and XLS-OB is the form factor and a couple of CV values (such as ID & Programming lock default).

Please explain how the uncoupler was connected and how the uncoupler is designed to operate?

Please also provide the values of the following CVs...

CV52 (FA1/FA2 Dim value)
CV54 (FA1 Command allocation)
CV55 (FA1 Special function)

 

[Benjamin]

The only difference between the XLS and XLS-OB is the form factor and a couple of CV values (such as ID & Programming lock default).

Please explain how the uncoupler was connected and how the uncoupler is designed to operate?

Please also provide the values of the following CVs...

CV52 (FA1/FA2 Dim value)
CV54 (FA1 Command allocation)
CV55 (FA1 Special function)

Muns,

Thank you for your reply. The uncoupler is connected directly to decoder output FA1, with Massoth micro decoder three wires cable. The negative and positive wires are the only two wires directly connected to the uncoupler. The uncoupler works like a solenoid, it release the mechanical locking mechanism when energized. It is rated at 5 VDC, no polarity.

Here are the CV's value:

CV7 = 40 (Software Version)

CV15 = 157 (Programming Lock)

CV16 = 157 (Programming Lock 2)

CV50 = 32 (Light Dimming Value)

CV51 = 128 (Front Light: Command Allocation)

CV52 = 64 (Rear Light: Command Allocation)

CV54 = 7 (Output 1)

CV55 = 0 (Special Function 1)

 

[muns]

Sorry, I mistyped the CV for the FA1/FA2 dimming value, should have been 53 not 52..

From what you say I would try the following....

Set FA1 to 5v by setting CV53 to 6 (dims both FA1 & FA2) or 70 (dim FA1 only, FA2 full voltage).

Personally I would set FA1 to "monoflop" operation (switch on for a specific time and then switch off) - set CV 55 to 64 + n (when n = 1 to 15, 1 - 0.25s, 2 = 0.5sec, 4 = 1sec...).

 

[Benjamin]

Sorry, I mistyped the CV for the FA1/FA2 dimming value, should have been 53 not 52..

From what you say I would try the following....

Set FA1 to 5v by setting CV53 to 6 (dims both FA1 & FA2) or 70 (dim FA1 only, FA2 full voltage).

Personally I would set FA1 to "monoflop" operation (switch on for a specific time and then switch off) - set CV 55 to 64 + n (when n = 1 to 15, 1 - 0.25s, 2 = 0.5sec, 4 = 1sec...).

Muns,

It works!!!!!!! Thank you very much!!!!!!!. I set CV53 = 6 and CV55 = 65.

About the smoke generator, If I would do the following:
Currently CV59 = 8 (Switching Speed Command) to 0 and change CV56 = 2 (Output 2) to 8 and CV57 = 0 (Special Function 2) to 65.

Would this settings works?

Thank you, Ben

 

[muns]

CV59 to 0 and CV56 are ok - disable switching speed and operate FA2 with key 2.

Setting CV57 to 65 will set FA2 to operate in "monflop" mode. I would set CV57 to 0 - continuous operation.

As you set CV54 to 6 - FA2 will be set to about 5v - what voltage does the smoke unit require? If it can handle full track voltage then you will need to set CV56 to 70 [ 6 (dim value) + 64 (dim FA1 only)]