Manual point switches jamming

[WilsonBo]

Hi
I ma having a general problem with my manual point switches. The switches work fine when removed from the points and the point blades appear to be moving easily BUT when I connect the switch to the point it doesn't work. Moving the switch lever is fine but this does not move the tie bar. Is this a common problem and am I doing something stupid?
Would changing to using Peco point levers help? Obviously I would lose the spring function in the trailing direction, but they look simpler and therefore perhaps less tempramental...

 

[Gizzy]

Have you checked under the ramps covering the tie bars for debris?

Any other obstructions like ballast?

Undo the 2 screws on the top of the switch and check all is clean inside.

I smear a little copper slip on the contact points that are under the moving blades too....

 

[Rhinochugger]

Yep, it's usually a build up of rain-washed dirt that has got into the mechanism somewhere - either in the switch, or on the blades and tie-bar.

A bit of maintenance that you might have to undertake every five or six years

 

[dunnyrail]

You will find the Peco ones not that good, I have one somewhere and pretty soon removed it. 10mm make very good levers but we found the throw not sufficient for LGB points. I find the most reliable on LGB to be an EPL point motor unpowered, keeps orientation and allows trailing pretty well for metal wheeled stock. But not a cheep option!

 

[WilsonBo]

Have you checked under the ramps covering the tie bars for debris?

Any other obstructions like ballast?

Undo the 2 screws on the top of the switch and check all is clean inside.

I smear a little copper slip on the contact points that are under the moving blades too....

Thank you. I think I have had a good clean out. Both the switch and the point blades move well on their own, but not when the switch is screwed onto the side of the points.

 

[WilsonBo]

You will find the Peco ones not that good, I have one somewhere and pretty soon removed it. 10mm make very good levers but we found the throw not sufficient for LGB points. I find the most reliable on LGB to be an EPL point motor unpowered, keeps orientation and allows trailing pretty well for metal wheeled stock. But not a cheep option!

Thank you. I am not sure what you mean by EPL. Are you suggesting using an LGB electric turnout mechanism but without any actual power to it?
Wilson

 

[PhilP]

Try loosening the fixing-screws, a quarter (or half) turn..

I think something is out of alignment, and binding? - This may ease things enough to work for you?

PhilP

 

[Rhinochugger]

Hi
I ma having a general problem with my manual point switches. The switches work fine when removed from the points and the point blades appear to be moving easily BUT when I connect the switch to the point it doesn't work. Moving the switch lever is fine but this does not move the tie bar. Is this a common problem and am I doing something stupid?
Would changing to using Peco point levers help? Obviously I would lose the spring function in the trailing direction, but they look simpler and therefore perhaps less tempramental...

Thank you. I am not sure what you mean by EPL. Are you suggesting using an LGB electric turnout mechanism but without any actual power to it?
Wilson

The Peco ones don't have enough throw either

I saw a guy at Peterborough who makes a nice point lever that I had previously bought from him email. Take a little bit of fettling, but they're nice, and for my USAT point, I extended the crank slightly to give a healthy overthrow

Williams Gauge 3 Models

williamsmodels.co.uk

You can't get much simpler

 

[dunnyrail]

Thank you. I am not sure what you mean by EPL. Are you suggesting using an LGB electric turnout mechanism but without any actual power to it?
Wilson

Yes that is exactly what I am suggesting as option, it is what I have done in my loft.

EPL is a system name for LGB points and other circuitry that can give great automatic running and point control.

https://wheelspinmodels.co.uk/i/162443/

 

[JimmyB]

Hi
I ma having a general problem with my manual point switches. The switches work fine when removed from the points and the point blades appear to be moving easily BUT when I connect the switch to the point it doesn't work. Moving the switch lever is fine but this does not move the tie bar. Is this a common problem and am I doing something stupid?
Would changing to using Peco point levers help? Obviously I would lose the spring function in the trailing direction, but they look simpler and therefore perhaps less tempramental...

So to confirm, this is an LGB point (turnout) and you are using the manual (not electric) attachment to move the blades. So if the manual attachment works not connected, and the turnout moves when not connected, then the issue is misalignment in connecting the two together,

 

[WilsonBo]

Yes that is exactly what I am suggesting as option, it is what I have done in my loft.

EPL is a system name for LGB points and other circuitry that can give great automatic running and point control.

https://wheelspinmodels.co.uk/i/162443/

Thanks for the clarification. I should have worked it out for myself!

 

[WilsonBo]

So to confirm, this is an LGB point (turnout) and you are using the manual (not electric) attachment to move the blades. So if the manual attachment works not connected, and the turnout moves when not connected, then the issue is misalignment in connecting the two together,

Thanks. I was coming to that conclusion, but since the switch locates in the paintwork sleepers and is secured by screw in locating holes I didn't think I could get the alignment significantly wrong!

 

[korm kormsen]

Thanks. I was coming to that conclusion, but since the switch locates in the paintwork sleepers and is secured by screw in locating holes I didn't think I could get the alignment significantly wrong!

you could try to atach the switch with its other side towards the turnout, or to fasten the switch to the other side of the turnout.

 

[Dan]

I have had switches not work when the point portion is not on a perfectly flat surface. If the track is twisted even a little the points can not move properly.

 

[Paul M]

Thanks. I was coming to that conclusion, but since the switch locates in the paintwork sleepers and is secured by screw in locating holes I didn't think I could get the alignment significantly wrong!

It may be the stress of the screw is causing the problem. Have you tried removing the screw.

 

[WilsonBo]

Thank you all. My basic problem was that I removed the switches to clean them out (not just rain washed dirt but also insect detritus). When it came to refitting them I was not able to get them absolutely true in the vertical direction (as suggested by Dan) and that was introducing too much friction. I am now in the process of lifting all the points and fitting the switches on a flat table top and so far the first 3 of the 5 have worked reasonably.
I am not convinced this is a good long term solution for my effectively ground level railway, even taking measures to protect the switches and points from rain water, rain dirt spatter, stray ballast and the like. I suspect a more robust mechanical switching mechanism will be needed. I have looked at the Mike Williams cast brass levers which are nice, but as mentioned by Rhinochugger would need significant fettling. The throw would need to be increased from 6 mm to 9 or even 10 mm and they would not be easy to mount.
I have come across what look like nice levers manufactured by Bertram Heyn (Turnout lever local railway for LGB-turnout, small distance). Moderately expense at around 26 euros though. Does anyone have any experience with these?

 

[dunnyrail]

Thank you all. My basic problem was that I removed the switches to clean them out (not just rain washed dirt but also insect detritus). When it came to refitting them I was not able to get them absolutely true in the vertical direction (as suggested by Dan) and that was introducing too much friction. I am now in the process of lifting all the points and fitting the switches on a flat table top and so far the first 3 of the 5 have worked reasonably.
I am not convinced this is a good long term solution for my effectively ground level railway, even taking measures to protect the switches and points from rain water, rain dirt spatter, stray ballast and the like. I suspect a more robust mechanical switching mechanism will be needed. I have looked at the Mike Williams cast brass levers which are nice, but as mentioned by Rhinochugger would need significant fettling. The throw would need to be increased from 6 mm to 9 or even 10 mm and they would not be easy to mount.
I have come across what look like nice levers manufactured by Bertram Heyn (Turnout lever local railway for LGB-turnout, small distance). Moderately expense at around 26 euros though. Does anyone have any experience with these?

I have this lever which could well be one, if it is will couple up to a point and see how it works for you.

 

[WilsonBo]

I have this lever which could well be one, if it is will couple up to a point and see how it works for you.
View attachment 316489

Yes that is the one I am thinking of. It would be very helpful to know what you think of it. Also is it painted or chemically blackened?

 

[korm kormsen]

that is a nice lever. but you would have no spring function in the trailing direction.

 

[dunnyrail]

Yes that is the one I am thinking of. It would be very helpful to know what you think of it. Also is it painted or chemically blackened?

As you can see I have connected it to an LGB R3 point, the second sleeper needed to be drilled to take it with the end cut out to fit. I think some R1’s already have this mod as new.

The connection to the point is by 2 LGB screws and a small screw to hold to the crossbar. This needs to be fitted properly otherwise the bar from the lever can jam on the rail web (This can be seen in the second photo). Cant comment on blackening, mine as said earlier came in a collection of bits so was already coloured.

A big benefit of these levers is that you can read how the point is set by looking at the lever, great advantage when driving from some way off.

As for return, yes it does not return but can be trailed quite happily as the weight will keep to the next orientation as would happen if you trailed an EOL point.