Lionel G Scale Thomas - The Second Generation?

[James Day]

I can remember this stuff from the 1990s and quality wise it was fairly nasty, (the hollow plate G Scale track was particularly horrible) although back then it had the market to itself. I liked the moving eyes and the interchangeable faces though.

Annie and Clarabel were rather over wide and when a chum brought his along to our layout they would strike all sorts of lineside objects that everything else missed. The troublesome trucks were just bogie gondolas with faces, but children loved it and I did half consider buying some, although my concerns over the quality won and I never did.

Anyway - My question is - Is it, or has it been back in production recently? The boxes certainly look up to date compared to those available in the 1990s. Lionel Thomas stuff once fetched huge prices on e-bay, but now they seem to be virtually giving it away - Look at this item

eBay item number: ​

141866326304

I appreciate that this particular item is second hand, but even the other G scale Lionel Thomas items marked new are not much more.

The main downside for us here in the UK is the postage, as this range is/was never allowed to be sold here!

The overall look is not that bad really, although nowhere near a good as what Bachmann have acheived, but the real clincher for me is the quality of the mechanisms, which I recall as being awful, certainly the first time round.

If anyone has any knowledge or experience of the second generation G Scale Lionel Thomas I would like to hear from them. Is this the same unmodified tooling and mechs as before, or have changes/improvements been made?

James

PS: I love the figures that they include though and have already bought a few to go in my Bachmann locos!

 

[ntpntpntp]

I may well be wrong but I don't think they've been made since the early 2000s? The following link says the last calalog they featured in was 2003? http://www.lionel.com/products/ls-thomas-the-tank-engine-set-8-81027/

I've seen track offered for sale with yellow sleepers, but not sure if it was "proper" brass or hollow like the old Bachmann & Keystone stuff
[edit]Looking at piccies on the net, it was hollow stuff[/edit]

 

[James Day]

Thanks Nick,

I appreciate the link. Very helpful.

I guess that makes sense as Bachmann have been producing the G scale version since 2009, whilst Lionel now seem to be doing an '0' Gauge version. The people granting the licences would not want two companies making competing products aimed at the same market sector.

For example Hornby can sell the 00 version in the UK and Bachmann can't.

The date of the last producton also seems to suggest that despite the more modern looking boxes, the product inside will be more or less the same as it ever was, give or take the odd solid brass rail (or perhaps not after all)!

The only thing that I don't understand is why the prices have seemingly collapsed, unless that is because people no longer seek the Lionel models now that the visually and mechanically better Bachmann models are around?

James

 

[casey jones snr]

Thanks Nick,

I appreciate the link. Very helpful.

I guess that makes sense as Bachmann have been producing the G scale version since 2009, whilst Lionel now seem to be doing an '0' Gauge version. The people granting the licences would not want two companies making competing products aimed at the same market sector.

For example Hornby can sell the 00 version in the UK and Bachmann can't.

The date of the last producton also seems to suggest that despite the more modern looking boxes, the product inside will be more or less the same as it ever was, give or take the odd solid brass rail (or perhaps not after all)!

The only thing that I don't understand is why the prices have seemingly collapsed, unless that is because people no longer seek the Lionel models now that the visually and mechanically better Bachmann models are around?

James

James, I think that the main reason that prices have collapsed for them is that they are heaps of junk. Brass wheels, exposed gears, they were a nightmare to run on garden railways. The figures however were excellent and I still have many of them.

 

[Madman]

I have both the Lionel Thomas and the Bachmann Thomas. While the Bachmann loco is detailed better, the Lionel loco runs better on my layout. I even did all sorts of modifications to the Bachmann Thomas, including equalizing the drive axles. But it still does not like portions of my railway. The tightest curved track I have is R2.

The eyes on the Bachmann version move slower than the Lionel, so it's a bit easier to enjoy watching them.

 

[James Day]

Thanks Casey,

I like your turn of phrase!

Dan,

I have had to do a lot of work on my Bachmann Thomas stock mainly couplings to stop derailments, but bearing modification also improved the ride quality. How did you equalize the drive axles?

I have previously tried to run Thomas and the Christmas coach around my Christmas tree on LGB R1, which is much the same radius as Bachmann sell in their sets. Thomas really does not like it, nor does the coach. He struggles to shift the coach and the squealing noise made is awful. This year it was Playmobil only!

Maybe there is a opening for a Lionel Thomas there?

James

 

[ntpntpntp]

... Lionel now seem to be doing an '0' Gauge version.

That's been around for a long time, possibly longer than the 'G' version? I have '0' gauge Thomas, Annie and Clarabel that I bought years ago on ebay when my lad was a toddler and we collected all things TTT. Slightly better proportioned than the 'G' version I think. Mostly it's been on a shelf, though I disabled the motor and let him push it around as we have no '0' gauge track.

 

[Madman]

Thanks Casey,

I like your turn of phrase!

Dan,

I have had to do a lot of work on my Bachmann Thomas stock mainly couplings to stop derailments, but bearing modification also improved the ride quality. How did you equalize the drive axles?

I have previously tried to run Thomas and the Christmas coach around my Christmas tree on LGB R1, which is much the same radius as Bachmann sell in their sets. Thomas really does not like it, nor does the coach. He struggles to shift the coach and the squealing noise made is awful. This year it was Playmobil only!

Maybe there is a opening for a Lionel Thomas there?

James

James, the rolling stock, as it comes from the factory, also has trouble on my line. My track floats on ballast, so that is the main reason for the derailment issues. So what I did with Thomas was to remove the bottom motor plate and file the axle holes so that they were elongated up and down. Then I placed springs above the axles so that they would force the axles downward. It's a trial and error method. The advantage I have is that Thomas is battery powered via trailing battery car.

The wagons can be equalized also. You will note that the journals are held in place by small screws which are located on top of the chassis. These are accessible once the body is removed. If you loosen these screws a bit the axles will have some vertical play. Small springs can be placed above the sheet metal portion of the journal that rests on the chassis. Again, this is trial and error.

The bottom line for me is that the distance between axles, on the rolling stock, is too great, and my track has some undulations. This also happens with LGB longer stock of the two axle type. So I run small stock and all of my larger stock has four axles ( two bogies ).

 

[James Day]

Dan,

I like the idea of the springs you have added. I am guessing that Thomas would need split coupling rods to optimise the benefit?

I have added 1.4mm of drop to the bearings of most stock, but did not use springs, just allowing gravity to let the heavy wheels drop if there was an irregularity.

The main thing that improved my stock was the fitting of LGB couplings on all locos and short wheelbase stock, and pivoting couplings on the coaches and the goods brake van.

The regular Bachmann couplings were very hard to couple as they had been re-designded with the massive hook. The huge D couplings were very extremely ugly and equally hard to couple as the curved loop tended to deflect the approaching hook!

My modified short wheelbase stock still does not like LGB R1 reverse curves, but is fine with most other arrangements!

James