LGB R5 - "live" frog conversion

[Otter 1]

It is amazing, in more than 40 years LGB and many of the other makers did not learn to build reliable prototype switches. And there still seem to be many people around, who buy or promote that junk.

If I have to spent a few hours on a 100 Euro switch to make it work, I might as well built my own switches or assemble a kit. At least I would not have to riddle, what different makers mean by R 1, R 2,3,4,5,6,7,,8, -
I did not go to school for very long, but long enough to know what a radius or an angel is.

Have Fun

Juergen / Otter 1

 

[ntpntpntp]

It is amazing, in more than 40 years LGB and many of the other makers did not learn to build reliable prototype switches. And there still seem to be many people around, who buy or promote that junk.

To be fair, as I said in the first post on this thread I didn't and don't have many problems with LGB locos and stock on my R5 points (nor my R3's either) and I don't consider them "junk". I find they work ok for the stuff they're designed for. The live frog conversions I've carried out are directed more toward helping other brands of loco which have different wheel standards. Of course, fitting a live frog will help the LGB locos too!

In a similar way, the live frog conversions I've done to Peco points are aimed mainly at getting round the problems of LGB skates shorting out on the frog, but of course the conversion benefits all locos. (I should be able to find and re-post that conversion in its entirety should anyone be interested?)

 

[Otter 1]

I only had a few LGB R-3 turnouts. They were not save with larger LGB material, the flange rail is too short and too far away from the main rail to function. Smaller loco stall on the plastic frog.
And I still have to see a switch which consists of a combination of a straight track plus a curve on a metre gauge railway. That´s toytrain design from a hundred years ago.

Today I prefer turnouts which look a bit more prototypically. E. G. lower Code 250 rail profiles

This example was built from Llagas Creek and miha-modell parts (nickel silver, steel, plastic ties) in a few hours. It works for all known 45mm train models, even the large gauge 1 live steamers. Difficult parts like frog and blade rail comes readymade, still theparts for the above Y-switch does not cost more than 60 - 70 Euro.

It can not be the job of a customer to repair or improve inferior material offered by the trade.

Have Fun

Juergen / Otter 1

 

[Dave Hub]

This is a nice thread, but I'm confused (it takes very little, and getting less)

What is the point in having insulated frogs if we all have to convert them to live. does this make it always live on both rails or just the route in which the point is set?

Sorry for the questions on such a detailed thread but I only know about the frogs that live in the water.

 

[Gizzy]

This is a nice thread, but I'm confused (it takes very little, and getting less)

What is the point in having insulated frogs if we all have to convert them to live. does this make it always live on both rails or just the route in which the point is set?

Sorry for the questions on such a detailed thread but I only know about the frogs that live in the water.

Just the route as set Dave. The frog on an R5 LGB point is quite long, and a short wheelbase loco could stall on an insulated frog. My V52 bogie loco stalled on the 2 R5 points at Fundenhall when I was visiting there in 2008, but it works fine on R1/R3. However, it worked okay on R5 points when visiting a railway near Cambridge last year.

I regard Nick's thread as an improvement to the original LGB design, rather than correcting a manufacturing problem, and I've found it very informative....

 

[ntpntpntp]

What is the point in having insulated frogs if we all have to convert them to live.

Hi Dave,

having an insulated frog is the simplest way of making a point that doesn't require any further switching of polarity at the place where the two rails meet (the frog). With an insulated frog the two routes out of the point remain electrically independant. It's a common design that's been around as long as 2-rail electric trains. Some brands of point are made so that both routes remain powered (eg LGB points), others are made so that only the route that for which the point is set is powered (switched by the contact of the point blades against the rail)

Now, this is all fine until you find yourself running short wheelbase locos at slow speed: wheels and/or skates obviously loose electrical contact as they run over the insulated part of the frog, so the pickups available to your short loco are reduced and can lead to juddering or stalling. The wider the radius of point you use, the worse this can become as the length of the insulated part of the frog must be longer due to the shallower angle of divergance.

The way round this problem is to use live frog points where the frog is metal, as sold by some manufacturers. However, this adds complexity in that you must keep the actual frog section isolated from the rails beyond the point (especially if there are any power feeds beyond the point) and must then use some form of polarity switch to connect the frog to whichever route is selected.

... does this make it always live on both rails or just the route in which the point is set?

Only the route which is set is live beyond the point. Both rails of the other route become connected to the same polarity unless you isolate the rails beyond the frog as mentioned above. If the trackwork beyond is just a siding then this is not a problem unless you use DCC and want a loco parked in the siding to remain powered up.

So, you don't HAVE to do this conversion but you can either do something like my conversion or buy live-frog points if you wish to maximise slow running ability. Other ways to help are to run locos with flywheels to get them glide over frogs or other electrical interruptions, or with DCC locos you can use a Power Buffer which supplies power to the decoder during the interruption.

I come from a background in smaller scales (N gauge) where it's accepted that live frogs give better running, therefore I'm used to the additional complexities of frog switching etc. and don't give it a second thought.

 

[ntpntpntp]

I regard Nick's thread as an improvement to the original LGB design, rather than correcting a manufacturing problem, and I've found it very informative....

Thanks Gizzy - my reply took a bit longer to type! One objective was to do the conversion with a minimum of actual irreversible modification to the point, and in this case all that would need to be "repaired" to revert to insulated frog is to repalce the brass bridging bars with wiring.

I haven't done an exhaustive search, but so far I haven't seen anyone selling a "drop in" replacement frog for the R5 point? (KentKeith was asking if I intend to go into production!) I know Heyn Modellbau sells replacement frogs for R3.

 

[The Devonian]

Wild strawberries.
I have quite a few of those plants growing near my ROW. One does need to watch the invasive runners that the plants have. Other than that they are nice low level plants which do have the advantage of protecting and binding ballast edges. They also provide food for some wild creatures: we prefer the larger varieties.