Is LGB 2046 DC or DCC?

[Airbuspilot]

We have a recently acquired loco - LGB 2046 (rack type) - but I cannot find any manuals for this specific model. I can find 24460 which is as near identical as far as I can see. I am told by the owner of the railway ours was bought as an analog only loco, the documents for the 24460 suggest it has a DCC decoder (MTS?).

Can I establish what sort of decoder is fitted to the 2046?

I can presumably put it on the programming track and check but I am not going to be able to visit the railway for some time. I brought the Loco home to take it apart to see what, if any, decoder has been fitted but I don't want to undertake surgery unless its absolutely necessary.

If anyone can enlighten me I would be grateful.

Robin

 

[SevenOfDiamonds]

If it has a 4-digit number, it would have left the factory as an analogue loco (and a three-pin motor block?).

It would have been renumbered 20460 (1993 onwards). . . . though further research suggests it became 22460. 24460 is a later version.

Cheers

David

 

[Brixham]

My usual reference looky up site is garden bahn data base.
A search with gbdb usually brings it up
There’s a search window top right, enter the lgb model number, and hopefully an image of your search.
With locos, there’s a useful list stating some basic info, lights, smoke, sound etc, along with decoder fitted?
Also pdfs of instruction and exploded diagrams.

Malcolm

 

[Gizzy]

It can be run on address 0 on an MTS or Massoth DCC system....

 

[Airbuspilot]

My usual reference looky up site is garden bahn data base.
A search with gbdb usually brings it up
There’s a search window top right, enter the lgb model number, and hopefully an image of your search.
With locos, there’s a useful list stating some basic info, lights, smoke, sound etc, along with decoder fitted?
Also pdfs of instruction and exploded diagrams.

Malcolm

Thanks David and Malcolm

I found the gbdb site thanks.

Looks like I will have to perform surgery and fit a DCC decoder.

Robin

 

[phils2um]

The LGB 2046 was the very first version of the FO HGe 2/2. It is most definitely analog only unless one of the previous owners modified it.
The manual for this loco is the LGB brochure 2030/50 titled Elektrolokimotiven.

Here are pics of the relevant manual pages for you.



These locos are particularly easy to convert to DCC. The single motor is mounted vertically in the body as you can see in the exploded diagram here https://www.onlytrains.com/manuals/2046-1.pdf. There is no "motor block" per se. I've got a LGB 2146, the early blue/white SchB livery version of the loco.

Here is a pic of mine with the roof removed. Gently pry off the walkway and air tank on the left and right sides of the roof to access the six screws securing the roof. The instructions above give guidance on further disassembly. Mine is not a sound conversion. I used an ESU LokPilot XL V4.0 as the decoder. I initially just interfaced the decoder to the original analog circuit board. I have since removed the original LGB analog circuit board to be able to control the cab light separately from the loco lights. I also added a Massoth "Electronic Fuse" between the track pickup and decoder.

 

[Airbuspilot]

The LGB 2046 was the very first version of the FO HGe 2/2. It is most definitely analog only unless one of the previous owners modified it.
The manual for this loco is the LGB brochure 2030/50 titled Elektrolokimotiven.

Here are pics of the relevant manual pages for you.

View attachment 308476 View attachment 308477 View attachment 308478

These locos are particularly easy to convert to DCC. The single motor is mounted vertically in the body as you can see in the exploded diagram here https://www.onlytrains.com/manuals/2046-1.pdf. There is no "motor block" per se. I've got a LGB 2146, the early blue/white SchB livery version of the loco.

Here is a pic of mine with the roof removed. Gently pry off the walkway and air tank on the left and right sides of the roof to access the six screws securing the roof. The instructions above give guidance on further disassembly. Mine is not a sound conversion. I used an ESU LokPilot XL V4.0 as the decoder. I initially just interfaced the decoder to the original analog circuit board. I have since removed the original LGB analog circuit board to be able to control the cab light separately from the loco lights. I also added a Massoth "Electronic Fuse" between the track pickup and decoder.

View attachment 308479

I was about to take out my screwdriver and attack the model from the bottom as I usually start that way, roof coming off now instead.

It would be interesting to know how old this model is, it is in perfect condition and I don't believe it has ever been run. A quick look for the decoder you used shows out of stock, I will check some of the German distributors. Thanks for the manual info, I have managed to find them now.

From the other thread - I will message railclamp.com and ask if they can deliver to Cyprus.

Robin

 

[dunnyrail]

I was about to take out my screwdriver and attack the model from the bottom as I usually start that way, roof coming off now instead.

It would be interesting to know how old this model is, it is in perfect condition and I don't believe it has ever been run. A quick look for the decoder you used shows out of stock, I will check some of the German distributors. Thanks for the manual info, I have managed to find them now.

From the other thread - I will message railclamp.com and ask if they can deliver to Cyprus.

Robin

2046 production run from 1987 to 1994, but part way through that period it morphed to 20460.

 

[DavidC]

2046 production run from 1987 to 1994, but part way through that period it morphed to 20460.

The actual date of manufacture for original LGB rolling stock is indicated by the ‘OK’ sticker, which should be on the underside of the locomotive:

The first and last digits are the manufacturing year.
The second and third digits are always ‘01’.
The fourth and fifth digits are the manufacturing month.

For example: ‘901108’ indicates manufacture in October (10) 1998 (9...8)

DavidC

 

[Airbuspilot]

I was about to take out my screwdriver and attack the model from the bottom as I usually start that way, roof coming off now instead.

It would be interesting to know how old this model is, it is in perfect condition and I don't believe it has ever been run. A quick look for the decoder you used shows out of stock, I will check some of the German distributors. Thanks for the manual info, I have managed to find them now.

From the other thread - I will message railclamp.com and ask if they can deliver to Cyprus.

Robin

The LGB 2046 was the very first version of the FO HGe 2/2. It is most definitely analog only unless one of the previous owners modified it.
The manual for this loco is the LGB brochure 2030/50 titled Elektrolokimotiven.

Here are pics of the relevant manual pages for you.

View attachment 308476 View attachment 308477 View attachment 308478

These locos are particularly easy to convert to DCC. The single motor is mounted vertically in the body as you can see in the exploded diagram here https://www.onlytrains.com/manuals/2046-1.pdf. There is no "motor block" per se. I've got a LGB 2146, the early blue/white SchB livery version of the loco.

Here is a pic of mine with the roof removed. Gently pry off the walkway and air tank on the left and right sides of the roof to access the six screws securing the roof. The instructions above give guidance on further disassembly. Mine is not a sound conversion. I used an ESU LokPilot XL V4.0 as the decoder. I initially just interfaced the decoder to the original analog circuit board. I have since removed the original LGB analog circuit board to be able to control the cab light separately from the loco lights. I also added a Massoth "Electronic Fuse" between the track pickup and decoder.

View attachment 308479

Phil

I have the ESU decoder (LocPilot XL) manual, looking at wiring diagrams - 6.8.4 - would seem to be correct, is this your conversion? If so the conversion is simple as you say.
Just need to find a decoder.

Robin

The actual date of manufacture for original LGB rolling stock is indicated by the ‘OK’ sticker, which should be on the underside of the locomotive:

The first and last digits are the manufacturing year.
The second and third digits are always ‘01’.
The fourth and fifth digits are the manufacturing month.

For example: ‘901108’ indicates manufacture in October (10) 1998 (9...8)

DavidC

Mine only has the 2046 sticker and an orange dot, no OK sticker but thanks for the info.

Robin

 

[dunnyrail]

Phil

I have the ESU decoder (LocPilot XL) manual, looking at wiring diagrams - 6.8.4 - would seem to be correct, is this your conversion? If so the conversion is simple as you say.
Just need to find a decoder.

Robin

Mine only has the 2046 sticker and an orange dot, no OK sticker but thanks for the info.

Robin

As Phil says this will be an easy conversion. If my thinking is correct there will be 3 wires emerging from the bottom of the chassis. What they do is to common one side pick up between the board and the motor. This will leave 1 wire unused. You will need to do this then the remaining 2 wires will go to the chip and 2 from that to the motor as Phils diagram shows.

 

[phils2um]

I have the ESU decoder (LocPilot XL) manual, looking at wiring diagrams - 6.8.4 - would seem to be correct, is this your conversion?

Yes, this is exactly how I wired mine. There are 3-conductor (green,brown, and white) cables that go to the front and rear lights. I don't recall which is which but one conductor is a common return, one feeds the lower right and the other feeds the lower left and upper center lights. The front and rear lower left and upper center light feeds go to the front and rear decoder light connections. Both front and rear lower right light feeds are tied together and I connected them to Aux1 which is configured to come on with the headlight function in both loco directions (Swiss lighting). I've got the single cab light hooked up to the decoder Aux2. The commons for all the lights go to the U+ decoder connection. Note that U+ is often labelled D+ or +24V on other brand decoders. The power pickup wire coming from the pantograph can be removed or its connector insulated so it can't short anything. It is no longer needed.

I thought about adding a light to the motor compartment but have not got around to it yet. This would be connected to another "reinforced" decoder output, Aux3 in my case.

I did do more disassembly beyond just removing the roof for the conversion. It just made getting at things easier. I only mentioned taking the roof off because it is an easy way to get a peek inside. Also note the underside of the roof is labelled with a "1" that goes towards the front.

You could use any decoder that can handle at least 3 amps motor current and at least 100 mA to the lights, Aux1 and Aux2. The hookup will be the same as shown in the LokPilot manual.

If you decide to remove the original analog board like I did be sure to remember to decrease the power output to the light, Aux1 and Aux2 decoder functions so you don't burn out the 5V bulbs. Set the dimming CVs to about 1/4 of the maximum allowable range. Another option is to replace the 5V bulbs with 19V or 24V bulbs so you don't have to worry about blowing them.

 

[Airbuspilot]

Yes, this is exactly how I wired mine. There are 3-conductor (green,brown, and white) cables that go to the front and rear lights. I don't recall which is which but one conductor is a common return, one feeds the lower right and the other feeds the lower left and upper center lights. The front and rear lower left and upper center light feeds go to the front and rear decoder light connections. Both front and rear lower right light feeds are tied together and I connected them to Aux1 which is configured to come on with the headlight function in both loco directions (Swiss lighting). I've got the single cab light hooked up to the decoder Aux2. The commons for all the lights go to the U+ decoder connection. Note that U+ is often labelled D+ or +24V on other brand decoders. The power pickup wire coming from the pantograph can be removed or its connector insulated so it can't short anything. It is no longer needed.

I thought about adding a light to the motor compartment but have not got around to it yet. This would be connected to another "reinforced" decoder output, Aux3 in my case.

I did do more disassembly beyond just removing the roof for the conversion. It just made getting at things easier. I only mentioned taking the roof off because it is an easy way to get a peek inside. Also note the underside of the roof is labelled with a "1" that goes towards the front.

You could use any decoder that can handle at least 3 amps motor current and at least 100 mA to the lights, Aux1 and Aux2. The hookup will be the same as shown in the LokPilot manual.

If you decide to remove the original analog board like I did be sure to remember to decrease the power output to the light, Aux1 and Aux2 decoder functions so you don't burn out the 5V bulbs. Set the dimming CVs to about 1/4 of the maximum allowable range. Another option is to replace the 5V bulbs with 19V or 24V bulbs so you don't have to worry about blowing them.

I understand the LocPilot decoder you used is no longer produced, I have been looking for an alternative. I like the idea of screw terminals but I’m having trouble finding something amongst the multiple decoders out there. Could you (anyone) offer a suggestion for a suitable non sound decoder?
Robin

 

[idlemarvel]

I would go for a Massoth XL. Screw terminals, enough amps for two motors, plenty of outputs and a SUSI socket should you wish to add sound later. All my locos have an XL, they are rock solid in my experience.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

I'm also happy with Zimo, many versions available, 16 bit sound, and dual audio amps, and you can get tons of amperage if you need it.

Support for Zimo is better here in the USA, don't know about your local support.

Also, why don't you buy an inexpensive DCC system to be able to change stuff at your house? In the USA you can get a NCE PowerCab system for about $160 that will do everything. Running trains will not be it's big forte without an additional booster, it is about 15 volts and 2 amps, but you can test most locos, and program everything, easy to use system.

 

[phils2um]

Could you (anyone) offer a suggestion for a suitable non sound decoder?

I guess the biggest question to ask is what brand of loco decoder programmer you have access to. No matter which decoder you purchase you will need to make some programming changes. Programmers generally make modifying CV values very easy. If you have access to a Massoth, ESU, Zimo, or other brand of decoder programmer, or alternatively, programming software that works with your central station, take that into consideration when selecting a decoder manufacturer.

In addition to the decoders mentioned by Dave and Greg, the ESU LokPilot 5L is a suitable non-sound decoder when purchased with the No. 53950 screw terminal adapter board. The 5L comes with a solder pad adapter board that could be used but, like you, I prefer using a screw terminal adapter. The mXion Drive-M from Micron-Dynamics would also be a good non-sound decoder prospect. Like the Massoth XL, it also has a SUSI interface that makes it relatively easy add a sound board later. I am using quite a few Massoth and ESU large scale loco decoders and like both brands. I'm using mXion wagon light decoders and switch decoders and am impressed by them too, especially their price. I would try Zimo or mXion loco decoders but don't want to invest in another decoder programmer. I already have an ESU LokProgrammer and Massoth programming module in addition to my Märklin CS3!

You might want to consider installing a sound decoder too. You do not need to take advantage of the sound capability now but will have the ability to add a speaker in the future. You will need to look for a decoder manufacturer that has an appropriate HGe electric cogwheel locomotive sound project. If you go this route you will definitely want the decoder manufacturer's programmer though.

 

[phils2um]

You might just as well not get a sound decoder for your LGB 2046 conversion. I was looking for a potential move to sound for my 2146. The only somewhat reasonable sound project I could find is available is from ESU, for the Furka Oberalp HGe 4/4 I. It might be dicey trying to instal a speaker in these locos anyway.

 

[Airbuspilot]

I understand the LocPilot decoder you used is no longer produced, I have been looking for an alternative. I like the idea of screw terminals but I’m having trouble finding something amongst the multiple decoders out there. Could you (anyone) offer a suggestion for a suitable non sound decoder?
Robin

You might just as well not get a sound decoder for your LGB 2046 conversion. I was looking for a potential move to sound for my 2146. The only somewhat reasonable sound project I could find is available is from ESU, for the Furka Oberalp HGe 4/4 I. It might be dicey trying to instal a speaker in these locos anyway.

Thanks to everyone for your comments and suggestions. I am still very much at the low end of the learning curve where programming is concerned, I manage quite well with my own N gage layout using Digikeijs DR 5000 and iTrain. The G scale railway has ZIMO MX 10 and MX 32 FU which I had problems with initially and still find things that should work don't, which is very frustrating. We have the ZIMO decoder program on our computer but so far I haven't been able to make much sense of it.

I have looked at the Massoth XL and it does seem to be a good solution, the price is reasonable and the documentation seems to be written for non experts like me. As Phil said it does seem to be a simple conversion project with minimum wiring changes. I don't plan to go down the sound route as its well beyond my current level of expertise, however it could be something for later and it seems the Massoth would allow that.

Robin

 

[dunnyrail]

Thanks to everyone for your comments and suggestions. I am still very much at the low end of the learning curve where programming is concerned, I manage quite well with my own N gage layout using Digikeijs DR 5000 and iTrain. The G scale railway has ZIMO MX 10 and MX 32 FU which I had problems with initially and still find things that should work don't, which is very frustrating. We have the ZIMO decoder program on our computer but so far I haven't been able to make much sense of it.

I have looked at the Massoth XL and it does seem to be a good solution, the price is reasonable and the documentation seems to be written for non experts like me. As Phil said it does seem to be a simple conversion project with minimum wiring changes. I don't plan to go down the sound route as its well beyond my current level of expertise, however it could be something for later and it seems the Massoth would allow that.

Robin

To be honest if you are thinking of sound for the future and you are going to buy a Massoth decoder it makes little sense not to buy a sound decoder in the first place. The cost of upgrading will cost more in the long run, besides which prices go up as time goes on so you are giving yourself a double wamey cost wise. Fitting a sound decoder compared to a non sound decoder is exactly the same job except for the speaker and perhaps the sound adjustment pot. Both of which are simple plug ins.

As for the sounds, well yes it would be nice to have the exact sound but is this really necessary? On the Ruschbahn we had one of these with the LGB add on sound box which was for a Euro Electric (LGB Red 65004) and it sounded just fine, ok so not may-bee the grunching of a rack loco but certainly the correct type of whistle and other electric loco noises etc. However putbthe price of one of these with a non sound chip compared to an XLS with the right sound costs and you will see my logic.

 

[phils2um]

We have the ZIMO decoder program on our computer but so far I haven't been able to make much sense of it.

Might I suggest the ZIMO MX696N non-sound decoder and LOKPL96KS screw terminal lok interface board, about €116 at Grootspoor.com. I think these will work together but not I'm sure. Perhaps one of the experienced ZIMO users out there (Greg?) will confirm. Or even the MX696KS sound decoder package for around €155 also at Grootspoor.com. You may even get the 17% VAT removed being in Cyprus.

Seems like you are hardly the neophyte you claim as to understanding CVs, etc. given your N scale experience and what you've already accomplished puttering around in G. A ZIMO decoder will give you a good chance to experiment with the ZIMO programming software. I don't believe you need to purchase the ZIMO programming module to use the software as you have the MX10. Again, perhaps an experienced ZIMO user can confirm.

Speaking from personal experience I found the ESU LokProgrammer very daunting at first. It took quite an effort to understand even basic operation. Principally because the english translation of the manual was not so good. It turned out to be pretty straight forward once I actually tried using the ESU programming software on a real decoder. It just required going back and forth to the manual. I'm hardly an expert now but I was able to actually load a custom sound on an ESU decoder after using the LokProgrammer a bit. You really can't break the decoder unless it is incorrectly wired in the first place. The decoder reset is your "get out of jail free" card.