Impact of R1/R3 combination on engine size
- Thread starter Geoffrey
- Start date
Rhinochugger
Retired Oik
All LGB locos will run on R1.
If you're not using LGB locos, you're immediately limited with R1, but it depends whether you're looking at steam or diesel outline.
If you're not using LGB locos, you're immediately limited with R1, but it depends whether you're looking at steam or diesel outline.
Thanks. I'm using PICO engines and track.
idlemarvel
Neither idle nor a marvel
My rule of thumb is that rolling stock longer than 450mm / 18in looks bad on R1 curves because of the overhang, even if in theory it will run. Also locos with long wheelbase and no articulation like LGB 0-8-0 will grind their wheels. With R3 you have much more scope and most things will run and not look too bad.
Ok I have the Piko 2-10-2 tank that does at all like LGB R1 points or curves. It point blank refuses not to derail on an LGB R1 crossover. But in certain cases will manage R1 curves so long as they do not form a reverse curve. My Piko based 0-6-0 steam chassied loco and the 0-6-0 diesel shunt loco are however happy on the R1 points.
Rhinochugger
Retired Oik
The rule of thumb is that, if at all possible with the space available to you, R3 and wider is the best solution 
In other words, don't use R1 / R2 unless you have to.
Having said that - I've just had a nasty thought. Were you referring to Piko R1 / R3?
The track geometry is different to LGB, so the answer's going to be different.
In other words, don't use R1 / R2 unless you have to.
Having said that - I've just had a nasty thought. Were you referring to Piko R1 / R3?
The track geometry is different to LGB, so the answer's going to be different.
maxi-model
UK/US/ROW steam narrow gauge railways 1:1
In answer to your original question various factors will affect what locos and stock you will be able to run on R1 radius, or similar curves/points. Yes, all LGB made products are, nominally, made to negociate their "R1" radius. However, more generally, the factors to bare in mind are frstly the loco's wheel base and if any of the drivers are "blind" ? Is it an articulated loco ?(say like a Mallett/Mayer). Where are the couplings pivot point, shank length, in relation to the loco's drivers or a waggon's, or coaches outer most wheel sets. Where is the pivot point, on stock with bogies, in relation to the coupling and are those couplings body or bogie mounted ? There are a lot of variables to consider 
Hence the sage advice above. When designing a layout from scratch try to keep any curved track above 4ft radius and avoid reverse curves. Some products out there need even larder radii it you want to run them successfully - I run US type Mikados that are 1:20.3 scale on 45 mm gauge track 
Max
Hence the sage advice above. When designing a layout from scratch try to keep any curved track above 4ft radius and avoid reverse curves. Some products out there need even larder radii it you want to run them successfully - I run US type Mikados that are 1:20.3 scale on 45 mm gauge track Max
Max Whilst I would agree with you, 4ft and larger is nice if you can do it as you say. But few have the space, I certainly do not. When I started the current Dunnybahn I set out for all my curves to be 4ft Rad LGB R3 ruling. However whilst I managed that in the garden except for 1 siding that just did not work in my Shed. Here I had to get down to LGB R2 to get my second station in place. Nothing I own of LGB or Piko refuses to go round that R2. Yes things can look bad but as it is only viewed from the side and one half is hidden by a Factory I can and have to live with it.In answer to your original question various factors will affect what locos and stock you will be able to run on R1 radius, or similar curves/points. Yes, all LGB made products are, nominally, made to negociate their "R1" radius. However, more generally, the factors to bare in mind are frstly the loco's wheel base and if any of the drivers are "blind" ? Is it an articulated loco ?(say like a Mallett/Mayer). Where are the couplings pivot point, shank length, in relation to the loco's drivers or a waggon's, or coaches outer most wheel sets. Where is the pivot point, on stock with bogies, in relation to the coupling and are those couplings body or bogie mounted ? There are a lot of variables to consider
As for couplings because I exclusively use LGB and swop to LGB couplings on Piko locomotives I have no issues of reliability. Yes they are not pretty, but KD would not be right for my chosen prototype either so I again can and have to live with the limitations. The majority of my stock is bog standard LGB with a few weathered and repainted Playmobil and some Bachman that have new bodies.
maxi-model
UK/US/ROW steam narrow gauge railways 1:1
Jon, while I accept that some have very limited "plots" in which to build their line, the gist of what I am saying is to try to "future proof" your efforts as your interests develop and crystallize. That, and there are a lot of variables that can snafu and in turn limit your plans. I too started with LGB, hook and loop couplers, using a mixture of R1, R2, R3, R5 and flexi track. My garden is 24 x 10 ft. The problems started when I developed a fancy for US standard gauge prototypes - those heavyweights and streamliners don't take well to restricted curvature (reverse to boot) and points. It actually got a little easier when I switched to 15 mm & 16mm scales - I can run, in certain circumstances, on R3 and even tighter.
So now I operate a folded figure of 8 line (using a crossover). Some locos and stock can only run the outer loop, using flexi track. Then the next group can run on both inner and outer loops and negociate the crossover (you'd be surprised what a K-27 & a full size set of J&S cars can negotiate). That's where the R3's (including a Piko curved point R5/R3) are and more flexi. Finally there is another group, which includes many 15mm & 16mm scale items, that can traverse to even more tortuous reversing loop, reverse curves galore (flexi again) that runs its serpentine course within the inner loop. Thzt 9ne is sub R3 in places. I use knuckle, chopper and link and pin couplings - no hook and loop. But I have a translator wagon for those visitors who do and want to run with one of my locos or stock.. All my points are R5 though. Max
- those heavyweights and streamliners don't take well to restricted curvature (reverse to boot) and points. It actually got a little easier when I switched to 15 mm & 16mm scales - I can run, in certain circumstances, on R3 and even tighter.So now I operate a folded figure of 8 line (using a crossover). Some locos and stock can only run the outer loop, using flexi track. Then the next group can run on both inner and outer loops and negociate the crossover (you'd be surprised what a K-27 & a full size set of J&S cars can negotiate). That's where the R3's (including a Piko curved point R5/R3) are and more flexi. Finally there is another group, which includes many 15mm & 16mm scale items, that can traverse to even more tortuous reversing loop, reverse curves galore (flexi again) that runs its serpentine course within the inner loop. Thzt 9ne is sub R3 in places. I use knuckle, chopper and link and pin couplings - no hook and loop. But I have a translator wagon for those visitors who do and want to run with one of my locos or stock.. All my points are R5 though. Max
Thanks for the explanation, we clearly do different things with our lines and that is often the issue. My garden is roughly 80x20 so yes I could have fitted larger rad track in, but I wanted to access all of the garden to get to sheds at tha far end. Thus that takes out at least 3 ft of width to allow a path. Then there is track and stations both sides another 2ft lost one side. Then a station with curve into and out of it within what is left and a line with planting behind, that took care of the remaining 15ft. Thus 4ft was only option practical for me. But though I admire them I have no desire for Gn3 locomotives and stock my needs for my East German Metre Gauge theme being catered for predominantly by LGB and Trainline. Horses for courses, rule 1 for all of us I guess. But at least these discussions may give some ideas and a possible route to follow for the enquirer. The answer is never simple for someone who may not be entirely sure what they want, a common theme for newcommers to the scale. Allowing as big as you can is generally a good call if there is space.Jon, while I accept that some have very limited "plots" in which to build their line, the gist of what I am saying is to try to "future proof" your efforts as your interests develop and crystallize. That, and there are a lot of variables that can snafu and in turn limit your plans. I too started with LGB, hook and loop couplers, using a mixture of R1, R2, R3, R5 and flexi track. My garden is 24 x 10 ft. The problems started when I developed a fancy for US standard gauge prototypes
So now I operate a folded figure of 8 line (using a crossover). Some locos and stock can only run the outer loop, using flexi track. Then the next group can run on both inner and outer loops and negociate the crossover (you'd be surprised what a K-27 & a full size set of J&S cars can negotiate). That's where the R3's (including a Piko curved point R5/R3) are and more flexi. Finally there is another group, which includes many 15mm & 16mm scale items, that can traverse to even more tortuous reversing loop, reverse curves galore (flexi again) that runs its serpentine course within the inner loop. Thzt 9ne is sub R3 in places. I use knuckle, chopper and link and pin couplings - no hook and loop. But I have a translator wagon for those visitors who do and want to run with one of my locos or stock.. All my points are R5 though. Max
These discussions have been very helpful. Now I begin laying out track I realize my space is not near as large as my dreams! I'm very thankful for everyone's comments and ideas.
I think we all suffer from that. As people have said, the larger radius the better, but don't forget a lot of people have made great layouts and have great fun with R1s and probably tighter
Rhinochugger
Retired Oik
ha! very true. It's like the "chicken or the egg". In my case the chicken is already here; I now only have room for the egg.So do you want a railway in your garden, or a garden in your railway?
So now all you need to do is hatch a planha! very true. It's like the "chicken or the egg". In my case the chicken is already here; I now only have room for the egg.