Idiots guide to DCC.......

Fitz Orchard

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I have a muppet question I cannot find the answer to in plain English despite research and thus I turn to the forum experts here in the hope of an answer or two.
Background - I converted my little old LGB set up to DCC about 15 years ago and then due to other commitments ( a growing family) it was all soon packed away for over a decade, during which my memory and faculties aged. Now in my dotage and after downsizing and getting the family off the payroll I returned to the trains and remembered just enough of the instruction session I had from GRS back then to operate my Massoth set up at a basic level but am struggling to understand the basics of how it actually works and my lack of knowledge leads me to seek advice.
I am an electrical and electronics idiot. So here goes -
Simplest solution would be if there is literally an idiots guide to DCC written in plain English for non scientific/engineering brains. I haven't found one yet but perhaps someone out there knows of such a thing.
My quandary and confusion can be summed up in one question as follows:
With old fashioned DC power the train gets current from the track from a supply regulated by a controller. As the current increases the train moves with the flow of current determining speed. Wind the control knob down and the train slows down and stops after which there is no current in the track.
As I understand it with DCC the current flows at full voltage constantly with the central digital controller 'sending' digital instruction signals (also through the track). These are received by the decoder in the loco which controls the speed. Other such instructions can be used to control lights/sound etc. The responses to the instructions are determined by CVs (control variables) which are unique to each loco identity and which have been pre-programmed into the device decoder. Without the decoder responding no current reaches the motor. That is about as far as my understanding goes.
If that is all true then the track is constantly fully powered under DCC. Why then is it that my only loco which has no decoder and still operates under DC does not race at full speed if I put it on the DCC track? I would have thought that it would but such is not the case - it does nothing.
If I can understand a little better I may then be able to approach the underlying reason for my enquiry - I want to find out if it is possible to run a DC loco on DCC track or do I need to have the DCC switched off and turn on my old DC transformer and speed controller?

Again my apologies for what to most of you may seem an incredibly naive question but G Scale Central has such great content and advice on so many areas I thought I just had to throw it out there.

Thanks
 
Mostly correct yes.

But when using an analogue loco on DCC, (address 0) the control signal will be pulses of dc at the maximum voltage (not current which is different to voltage).

These pulses will be wider for increase of voltage and narrower for decreased voltage, keeping it as simple as I can for a non technical person....
 
Why then is it that my only loco which has no decoder and still operates under DC does not race at full speed if I put it on the DCC track?

If you don't want a scientific/engineering answer, just accept it as magic and move on.

As far as operating a DC loco on a DCC equipped track, for many DCC systems selecting loco address 0 will allow a DC loco to be controlled by the DCC handset..... but it will most likely be quite "noisy" (higher pitched "humming" that varies with speed) due to the non-scientific/engineering magic going on.

"DCC on 0" operation works with LGB MTS, Massoth and Piko DCC systems but not all DCC system support that method of operation.
 
Brilliant. Thankyou. How simple. I just put it on the track assuming it go off like a shot. Carriage lighting works so I thought…..
Emboldened with new knowledge I will now embark on another quest - to understand the difference between current and voltage! I vaguely recall a plumbing analogy - current is the volume of water in the pipe and voltage the pressure that pushes it through. Probably not right but this was 55 years ago in 3rd year physics.
Really appreciate your thoughtful input - may the magic of science live on!
 
It looks to me like you have already started your own guide. As you ask questions answers you get can add to it. For my part I hope to explain what occured with the DCC voltage inside the chip.

Track voltage is rectified (converted) from AC to DC by the chip and there is a controller in the chip that responds to your DCC controllers commands making the loco accelerate, slow and if commanded stop.

That is a crude description but basically is what occurs.
 
I think whats missing here is that the DCC wave form is different from the DC waveform and the motors only operate on DC waveform. DCC is more like AC in structure, which is why your DC loco does not go racing off when DCC high static voltage is applied. The decoder converts the DCC waveform/signal to PWM DC to drive the motors.

This is why when using a PWM (pulse wave modulation) DC power pack and you put a DCC-decodered loco on the track it will shoot off, because the decoder thinks the PWM-DC waveform is a DCC signal (and doesnt know how to interpret with no data). DCC locos with analog capability need pure DC and not PWM DC to operate correctly. This is why G scale graphics makes a device that converts PWM DC to pure DC to be used with modern decoder-loaded locos. The 10amp MRC Power G and USA Trains DC power packs are good examples of PWM that will send decoder locos shooting off when power is applied.
 
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This is why when using a PWM (pulse wave modulation) DC power pack and you put a DCC-decodered loco on the track it will shoot off, because the decoder thinks the PWM-DC waveform is a DCC signal. DCC locos with analog capability need pure DC and not PWM DC
?

PhilP.
 
Whats your question here?
I don't think that comment is true?

A DCC loco with DC enabled and a power-buffer, will take off when track-power is switched off.

A DCC loco on a DC powered track will behave as a DC loco, so if there is power on the track, yes it will move, just as a non-fitted loco would.

It used to be that some decoders were confused by a PWM DC supply, but most will now cope with this.

PhilP.
 
I don't think that comment is true?

A DCC loco with DC enabled and a power-buffer, will take off when track-power is switched off. Yes

A DCC loco on a DC powered track will behave as a DC loco, so if there is power on the track, yes it will move, just as a non-fitted loco would. Only if analog is enabled in CV29, and the DC Power source is not PWM otherwise it will not respond properly until the voltage is way up.

It used to be that some decoders were confused by a PWM DC supply, but most will now cope with this. I know MLGB MSD3 decoders suffer from this with non-LGB power packs as described.

PhilP.
answers above
 
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