How steep an incline can be

JimmyB

JimmyB

Now retired - trains and fishing
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So I am looking at my loops passing over each other, and therefore raising the track, and I know the question "how steep can an incline be" is almost as bad as "how long is a piece of string".
I appreciate that 1:100 is good, this takes more room than I have, I also appreciate it will depend on the power type i.e. battery, DC, DCC, steam, the manufacture, the the length and weight of what is being pulled.
I am looking at DC and steam, and relatively short trains.
My thoughts are about 1:20, and looking at a height of about 1 ft (300 mm) it with take 20 ft (6 mtrs) either side :oops:
 
Jimmy, I settled on 1:40 when I built my line, thinking that was steep by B.R. standards. I've come to appreciate the I could manage with something quite a bit steeper. I'm currently considering an extension where I might go down to 1:25 or thereabouts. Remembering that I mostly run live steam, my Countess will easily pull 40 axles up 15 metres of 1:40. 40 axles is a l-o-n-g train especially on my line, so I'm prepared to compromise on train length, should that be necessary.

Get yourself a scaffold type plank and put some track and your favoured length of train on it, and experiment with how steep you can manage. You will probably be very surprised.

There is one added proviso, don't go straight into the climb/drop, or straight out of it, reduce it gradually top and bottom. It will avoid the odd derailment.
 
G-force1 said:
Get yourself a scaffold type plank and put some track and your favoured length of train on it, and experiment with how steep you can manage. You will probably be very surprised.

There is one added proviso, don't go straight into the climb/drop, or straight out of it, reduce it gradually top and bottom. It will avoid the odd derailment.
Click to expand...

Two very good point thank you
 
G-force1 said:
Jimmy, I settled on 1:40 when I built my line, thinking that was steep by B.R. standards. I've come to appreciate the I could manage with something quite a bit steeper. I'm currently considering an extension where I might go down to 1:25 or thereabouts. Remembering that I mostly run live steam, my Countess will easily pull 40 axles up 15 metres of 1:40. 40 axles is a l-o-n-g train especially on my line, so I'm prepared to compromise on train length, should that be necessary.

Get yourself a scaffold type plank and put some track and your favoured length of train on it, and experiment with how steep you can manage. You will probably be very surprised.

There is one added proviso, don't go straight into the climb/drop, or straight out of it, reduce it gradually top and bottom. It will avoid the odd derailment.
Click to expand...

Just to add to this, drop one piece of rolling stock of the length of the test train if corners are to be used in the finished incline.
 
For me the answer is simples......not more than half a bubble on my late father's spirit level:

BigMountainBuild-08.jpg
 
It also depends on the loco construction - let me explain.

Most mass manufactured locos have a bit of play in the axle boxes / bearings, and so will have greater adhesion on slightly irregular track by being able to get weight on most wheels.

Bogie diesel / electric outline locos, Shays, Heislers and Climaxes obviously benefit from the bogie movement and get reasonable adhesion.

Most steamers, with the exception of, I believe only the Silver Lady Anne which had a sprung chassis, do not have any compensation or slack. I found out about the issue with my scratchbuilt 2-6-2 (and Mel Turbutt had a similar issue with his electric Earl / Countess many moons ago) and the problem is that despite the tractive effort, the rigidity of the chassis often prevents the full power being deployed, as some of the wheels are not always bearing down hard against the rail - or on my uneven track, frequently pawing the air like the inside front wheel of Jim Clark's Lotus Cortina :clap::clap:

I probably haven't explained that very well, after all :emo::emo::emo:
 
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how steep? - that depends of many interacting factors.

my personal experiences:
1) i had on my last layout one section, that was 7% (1:14)
using some tricks, two of my Stainzes (both the older clamshell models!) did manage each to draw three of the one foot long LGB-cars up that grade.
(locos weighted up to 2.5 kilograms / 5+ pounds each, using coarse sandpaper sideways on the rails for better grip of the wheels)

2) on my actual layout i have some grades, that are up to 6% / 1:16.6 on straights and up to 4.5% / 1:22.2 on (LGB R1) curves.
a combo of Stainz with an LGB tender (both weighted up) can draw either six of the above mentioned LGB cars, or up to five four-axled Newqida cars up these grades.
(no mutilation of track with sandpaper needed)
my Big Hauler died, while trying to draw just its own tender up these grades.

steigung25.JPG
 
On my railway Im having to include a grade because our yard is so not level. I've had a bubble level on my smart phone since my class in Sugar Showpieces. I use it to maintain my track grade at less than 2.2º. It also helps to verify that the track is level side to side. I dont want to loose any rolling stock over the edge!
 
BakerJohn said:
On my railway Im having to include a grade because our yard is so not level. I've had a bubble level on my smart phone since my class in Sugar Showpieces. I use it to maintain my track grade at less than 2.2º. It also helps to verify that the track is level side to side. I dont want to loose any rolling stock over the edge!
Click to expand...
What's 2.2% in pounds, shillings and pence :think::think::think::think::think:

or, as we've mentioned in another thread, what does that equate to as in .....1 in ??

We Brits (well us old gits) have never done gradients in percentage, and struggle to understand the concept :nerd::nerd:
 
Zerogee said:
Nice to see an old spirit level like that still in use.... have you ever had to buy a replacement bubble for it? ;):rofl::rofl:

Jon.
Click to expand...

No Jon, its still the original..... and maybe Dad got the level originally from his Dad!!
 
Rhinochugger said:
What's 2.2% in pounds, shillings and pence :think::think::think::think::think:

or, as we've mentioned in another thread, what does that equate to as in .....1 in ??

We Brits (well us old gits) have never done gradients in percentage, and struggle to understand the concept :nerd::nerd:
Click to expand...

1 in 45. Simply divide 100 by the %. Thank goodness we don't use feet per chain any more.

Please, no correcting answers saying that it is 1 in 45.45454545. Trouble with that 'exact' figure is that it is a conversion fromn a figure we don't know is exact... the 2.2% could be a rounded up number. 1 mile is 1.609m (near enough) but we don't know if it is an English mile, Irish mile, or a country mile to start with.
 
1 in 20 will be ok for your track powered locos with fairly short trains but may be a bit steep for live steam. Even if they get up the grade successfully most will run away alarmingly going down the other side. Locos vary greatly on this with some much tamer than others. I would suggest reducing the severity of the incline by going for less clearance. 8 inches should be sufficient for all but the very tallest stock.
 
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