Hello & Massoth Reverse Loop Module problem

[NG Retired]

Problem with Massoth Reverse Loop Module
Hi

I have had a reverse loop module on my LGB MTS system for many years and it has worked well.

Recently the unit stopped working, the problem is that there is no voltage in the reverse loop. When the voltage is measured on the module there is 24V on the IN, 0 V on the OUT, 0 V on SENS IN.

Any suggestions as to why it has stopped working

Using the diodes and the sensor track. No corrosion visible in unit.

Any help much appreciated

Nigel

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Unfortunaty, most likely repair will be hard to isolate the fault... you could try triggering the reverser and seeing if power is being supplied to the coil of the relay (I do believe there is a relay)...

Greg

 

[NG Retired]

Unfortunaty, most likely repair will be hard to isolate the fault... you could try triggering the reverser and seeing if power is being supplied to the coil of the relay (I do believe there is a relay)...

Greg

Thanks Greg,
Amazing speed of response.
Passing a loco over the sensor sections did not change anything. If that is what you meant by triggering the reverser.
I have removed the module from the track and I'm in the process of building a test reverse loop in my garage.

Thanks

 

[TTaannggss]

Sounds interesting and welcome. Could you send some pictures please.

 

[dunnyrail]

Was the unit located outside with little protection for weather?

 

[NG Retired]

Sounds interesting and welcome. Could you send some pictures please.

 

[NG Retired]

I have disconnected the module from the track and I'm in the process of building a test loop. Sorry no pictures

 

[NG Retired]

Was the unit located outside with little protection for weather?

The unit was outside and contained inside a "waterproof" box. The box is completely dry and I can not see any corrosion on any of the terminals or wires

 

[PhilP]

Do you leave the power on all the time?

If so, the slightest bit of damp in the unit, will allow the pcb tracks to migrate (electrolysis).
It can only take one tiny break, for a device to fail.

I would take the unit apart, and examine it closely.

PhilP

 

[Gizzy]

I just had a reverse loop module failure, but it turned out to be a wiring issue. A wire had come adrift from the terminal block inside the 1015 T double-break insulating track terminal block. However this didn't resolve the fault and I eventually discovered that a fox had chewed through the cable.

Replacing the cable cured the problem, but I've also decided to attach the wires to track clamps instead of inside the 1015T, as sometimes the screws on the terminal blocks go rusty, and they are difficult to access.

I note that you use diodes with your reverse loop modules but I'm not sure why? I used diodes with DC, but after upgrading to MTS and then Massoth these are not required. I'm not quite sure how the MTS reversing modules work, but having heard a clicking inside them whilst in use, I assume that they use a relay to reverse the polarity....

 

[dunnyrail]

As I understand LGB and MTS reverse modules are pretty similar in the way they work. A short is detected and the clever circuitry instantly does whatever it does to reverse the polarity likely by changing a latching relay till the next short detection. Philip has described better than I could the issues outside. One of my friends lines has a Massoth unit located inside a dry shed and if possible this is the way to go, longish runs of wire should not be an issue.

 

[NG Retired]

Do you leave the power on all the time?

If so, the slightest bit of damp in the unit, will allow the pcb tracks to migrate (electrolysis).
It can only take one tiny break, for a device to fail.

I would take the unit apart, and examine it closely.

PhilP

Hi Philip,
Most of the electronics is sealed in some sort of resin like material so you can not get at that. All the terminals look fine, any connecting wires look OK. Now I have the unit out I will take a closer look.

 

[NG Retired]

I just had a reverse loop module failure, but it turned out to be a wiring issue. A wire had come adrift from the terminal block inside the 1015 T double-break insulating track terminal block. However this didn't resolve the fault and I eventually discovered that a fox had chewed through the cable.

Replacing the cable cured the problem, but I've also decided to attach the wires to track clamps instead of inside the 1015T, as sometimes the screws on the terminal blocks go rusty, and they are difficult to access.

I note that you use diodes with your reverse loop modules but I'm not sure why? I used diodes with DC, but after upgrading to MTS and then Massoth these are not required. I'm not quite sure how the MTS reversing modules work, but having heard a clicking inside them whilst in use, I assume that they use a relay to reverse the polarity....

I have put together a reversing loop in the garage. I'm making a couple of Track Sensor systems from the LGB yellow track isolators. Using all new wiring, removing the diodes and connecting the Track Sensor bits directly into the module. Basically that only leaves the 8157001 module not changed. If fault continues I will buy a replacement.
The Massoth manual states "diode installation for improved operation"
The Massoth 8157001 does not use 1015T
Cheers
Nigel

 

[PhilP]

If the board is 'potted', or there is a conformal coating, then it should be fine.
It may not have liked last year's excessive temperatures. Especially if you ran anything those very hot days? - Mad dogs, and English men..

PhilP

 

[NG Retired]

If the board is 'potted', or there is a conformal coating, then it should be fine.
It may not have liked last year's excessive temperatures. Especially if you ran anything those very hot days? - Mad dogs, and English men..

PhilP

Survived the hot summer, working a month ago. So a recent failure

 

[TTaannggss]

I have disconnected the module from the track and I'm in the process of building a test loop. Sorry no pictures

Ok. We like pictures. Send some of anything. We are not fussy. A picture says a thousand words...see

 

[JimmyB]

Ok. We like pictures. Send some of anything. We are not fussy. A picture says a thousand words...see

Yes, but train orientated photos, not just anything.

 

[NG Retired]

Hi everyone, especially Phil, pictures attached, not sure if they add to the discussion. Pics 1&2 show outside loop from 2 views. Pics 3 & 4 show outdoor connections. 5th Pic shows my attempt at a track sensor, same size as Massoth. Pic 6 loop in garage made from spare track, Final pic is the track sensor in place. Unfortunately only had 4 insulator block so have to wait for delivery of extra isolators
Thanks for all your interest
Pic 7 for the non train lovers

 

[Paul M]

It won't sort out your problem, but you really ought to run the wire through some sort of conduit, even if it just saves the insulation from breaking down in the sun

 

[NG Retired]

Hi to everyone that tried to help
After trying the suggestions from Massoth and making no progress have decided to bite the bullet and purchase a new unit.
Thanks
Nigel