Philip Sharp
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Hello from Philip
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Rhinochugger
Retired Oik
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Philip Sharp
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I have been in the hobby of model railroads for two years and became interested in garden railways about 10 months ago. Instead of building one largish layout, I plan building several small layouts in different scales. This piques my interest more than having one layout of one scale. In addition, building small layouts instead of one largish layout will mean I will have to wait less time before I have a completed layout.
For my small garden layout, I plan having dual gauge, 32mm and 45mm.
I am taking things slowly so as not to overcommit myself.
Philip
For my small garden layout, I plan having dual gauge, 32mm and 45mm.
I am taking things slowly so as not to overcommit myself.
Philip
Welcome Philip. Good idea having several layouts, garden railways are great, but the weather can be a problem!
Dual gauge lines are another great idea, although if you build your own track it can be difficult at the points or turnouts.
Philip Sharp
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The weather is not too bad in Auckland. We rarely get a frost and the record high temperature over the last 55 years was 30.5C. We do get a reasonable amount of rain. The average annual rainfall from 1981 to 2010 was around 48 inches. One layout I know of is affected in a minor way by ground movement.
I can well imagine dual gauge turnouts will be a challenge. Fortunately, there is someone a 35 minute drive from me who makes his own dual gauge turnouts and he has been very helpful. I was thinking of trying both bladed and stub turnouts - some photographs of the prototype and era I am interested in modelling in the smaller scales showed stub turnouts. Any thoughts about the relative difficulties of making these two types of turnouts?
Philip
Welcome Philip.
Many moons ago on my layout at Luton ai built a dual gauge circuit because the guys from the local 16mm Group were too lazy to change the gauge on their Live Steam Dragons. That circuit had a Mixed Gauge couple of Points and a 45 Gauge Crossover all scratch built using Flat Bottom Bonds Rail and their Brass Trackpins that look like a 7. Complete pain in the butt as the Wooden Sleepers on Compaction and Compression used to push out the Brass Pins. I had to go round the complete layout with a Hammer and a pair of Pliers to knock them all in again to find that they had lifted again the next time I wished to run. I sort of resolved some of it by using Steel Pins that would Rust in place keeping the Track together, but clearly this was not a permanent solution. In the end I gave up and changed it all for Peco G Scale Track.
However on Points, depending on the Rail that you use the Point Blades will need a lot of filing down and a Jiggle is worthwhile on the Stock Rail. Frogs also need to be fasioned with care and Bonded together with a good dose of Solder or better still Silver Solder.
Stub Turnouts will reduce a fair bit of that work, but can be a little trickier to get working long term reliably. You would certainly need to set the Track on a good permanent base, perhaps a paving slab with Metal underneath the rail to provide a place for fixing screws.
Another method of track construction that I have seen is to cut up Mains Wire to make a U, drill the sleepers then push the U from below the Rail clamping it it place with a pair of nippers. Perhaps a good dash of solder as well. If you go down this route you will need to be very accurate with the holes that you drill, perhaps fiendishly difficult on dual gauge points.
Finally you mightblike to look at this mans threads,msome interesting Track Methods
https://www.gscalecentral.net/threads/eltham-south-electric-tramway.307019/
Good luck and please post some pics of your progress.
JonD
Many moons ago on my layout at Luton ai built a dual gauge circuit because the guys from the local 16mm Group were too lazy to change the gauge on their Live Steam Dragons. That circuit had a Mixed Gauge couple of Points and a 45 Gauge Crossover all scratch built using Flat Bottom Bonds Rail and their Brass Trackpins that look like a 7. Complete pain in the butt as the Wooden Sleepers on Compaction and Compression used to push out the Brass Pins. I had to go round the complete layout with a Hammer and a pair of Pliers to knock them all in again to find that they had lifted again the next time I wished to run. I sort of resolved some of it by using Steel Pins that would Rust in place keeping the Track together, but clearly this was not a permanent solution. In the end I gave up and changed it all for Peco G Scale Track.
However on Points, depending on the Rail that you use the Point Blades will need a lot of filing down and a Jiggle is worthwhile on the Stock Rail. Frogs also need to be fasioned with care and Bonded together with a good dose of Solder or better still Silver Solder.
Stub Turnouts will reduce a fair bit of that work, but can be a little trickier to get working long term reliably. You would certainly need to set the Track on a good permanent base, perhaps a paving slab with Metal underneath the rail to provide a place for fixing screws.
Another method of track construction that I have seen is to cut up Mains Wire to make a U, drill the sleepers then push the U from below the Rail clamping it it place with a pair of nippers. Perhaps a good dash of solder as well. If you go down this route you will need to be very accurate with the holes that you drill, perhaps fiendishly difficult on dual gauge points.
Finally you mightblike to look at this mans threads,msome interesting Track Methods
https://www.gscalecentral.net/threads/eltham-south-electric-tramway.307019/
Good luck and please post some pics of your progress.
JonD
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Northsider
Modelling the Northern half of the Isle of Man
As you can see, the great thing about this forum is that there will almost always be someone else who has experience, and is happy to share it freely. Welcome aboard, and every success to the iron road!
Philip Sharp
Registered
Thanks for the detailed comments.
Are you currently in Luton? I'll be at Highams Park for another 10 days before returning to Auckland.
I bought some track spikes in the shape of 7 from Sunset Valley. I have practiced a little using the spikes to attached track to plywood sleepers. I quickly learnt that there were a lot variables such as the depth and diameter of the pilot hole, and the angle the spike is pushed in. I don't mind tightening the spikes once a year, before every session would be a bit much. I am undecided what wood to use for the wooden sleepers. Perhaps yellow cedar, there is a supplier in New Zealand.
What is a Jiggle in the sense you are using it? Googling did not help me.
I plan to build up to DG stub turnouts on a garden railway using something like the following steps
1. Make a couple of stub turnouts in HO.
2. Make a couple of stub turnouts in 32mm.
3. Then have a whack at the DG stub turnout.
Philip
Rhinochugger
Retired Oik
Ah, that sorts out a bit of confusion in my mind, you said you lived in Auckland but the forum wa giving you a British location
Can't find a picture of a jiggle either, although I know what Jon means; a notch is more common
Although I would hasten to add that I do not build my own points, although I was tempted once and started something.................................
Philip Sharp
Registered
Ah, that sorts out a bit of confusion in my mind, you said you lived in Auckland but the forum wa giving you a British location
Can't find a picture of a jiggle either, although I know what Jon means; a notch is more common
Although I would hasten to add that I do not build my own points, although I was tempted once and started something.................................
I too was confused about the Union Jack beside my name until I found a thread on this site about flags.
Thanks for the explanation and picture of a jiggle. I am unsure if I would have inferred the correct meaning using the text only. I certainly will switch over to manufactured track if I find handlaid track too difficult.
Philip
Zerogee
Clencher's Bogleman
Welcome to GSC, Philip - will look forward to seeing some pics of your dual-gauge line..... over here, GRS (Garden Railway Specialists) offer custom-made dual gauge track and pointwork, but if you have a local chap who can do it for you (or at least teach you how to do it) then it sounds like you're sorted!
Jon.
Jon.
Good luck with all of that.
JonD
Philip Sharp
Registered
Thanks Jon. I have been on the GRS website several times over the last 10 months but had not realized GRS custom-made dual grade track and pointwork. That sounds like a good Plan B. If I may wax philosophically, the journey is often more important than destination for me.
Philip
Zerogee
Clencher's Bogleman
There are a few specific items listed here:
http://www.grsuk.com/Custom-Track-and-Dual-Gauge-C309000
But I think they will make up pretty much whatever you want if your pockets are deep enough.....
Do note that they mention two types of dual-gauge - 32/45mm and 45/64mm (which is of course G scale metre and standard gauge). The sleeper sections look useful, but I'm not sure if they offer them in 32/45 - the one shown is 45/64.
Jon.
PS: there is another chap who turns up at most of the shows, trading as "3.0.1 models", who is an excellent builder of custom track in any scale and gauge - I don't think he has a website, but he can be contacted by phone or email - either I or someone else on here can probably dig up his contact details if you want them....
Rhinochugger
Retired Oik
Philip Sharp
Registered
Hmmm, I was in Cambridge one day last northern hemisphere summer.
Yep, plywood does not work in Auckland's climate. Creosote-soaked plywood might give you ten years if you are prepared to let some of your sleepers be seriously compromised. Creosote can no longer be sold legally in New Zealand. Not that it matters, I had no intention of using Creosote because it is unhealthy. The substitutes do not seem to work as well as Creosote. That leaves me undecided what to use for permanent sleepers (I don't mind using ply when I am learning). An Australian hardwood? New Zealand pine that has been treated to the H4 standard? H4 is suitable for fence posts, garden edgings and landscaping. Both of these options would be expensive per sleeper but if the layout is small the total cost might not be too great.
Zerogee
Clencher's Bogleman
Oh yes, we do philosophy
Philosophy?
An excellent quote I read recently (probably very old, I don't know the origin):
"Confidence is knowing who you are..... Arrogance is telling other people...."
Jon.
beavercreek
Travel, Art, Theatre, Music, Photography, Trains
Welcome Phiip.
On the treatment of wood sleepers....
We have a '5 star' treatment made by Cuprinol and Ronseal which is spirit based and counteracts all types of rot and insect infestation. It is clear, soaks in really well (due to being spirit based) treats all types of wood and dries quick.
It comes in up to 5 litre cans and costs about £45 for the 5 litres over here, but one can will do all of our decking area with the fencing and balustrades and the arbour, the layout buildings, bridges and trestles. So not bad value at all.
I tend to do the decking, fencing, balustrades and arbour once every two years and the layout buildings about every three years. This is probably not necessary (as it should last for a minimum of 5 years) but I like to make sure that all is well especially as the original treatment for the decking, arbour wood etc was only guaranteed for 10 years.
I have used it on all of my layout's wooden buildings, trestles, bridges (I use western red cedar for the construction), and also our arbour seating and decking/pergola area. My layout buildings have been out all year round for up to 11 years and the decking, pergola and the arbour seating has been in situ for 14 years. So far so good (I hate tempting providence).
I am sure that you can find the equivalent over there.
On the treatment of wood sleepers....
We have a '5 star' treatment made by Cuprinol and Ronseal which is spirit based and counteracts all types of rot and insect infestation. It is clear, soaks in really well (due to being spirit based) treats all types of wood and dries quick.
It comes in up to 5 litre cans and costs about £45 for the 5 litres over here, but one can will do all of our decking area with the fencing and balustrades and the arbour, the layout buildings, bridges and trestles. So not bad value at all.
I tend to do the decking, fencing, balustrades and arbour once every two years and the layout buildings about every three years. This is probably not necessary (as it should last for a minimum of 5 years) but I like to make sure that all is well especially as the original treatment for the decking, arbour wood etc was only guaranteed for 10 years.
I have used it on all of my layout's wooden buildings, trestles, bridges (I use western red cedar for the construction), and also our arbour seating and decking/pergola area. My layout buildings have been out all year round for up to 11 years and the decking, pergola and the arbour seating has been in situ for 14 years. So far so good (I hate tempting providence).
I am sure that you can find the equivalent over there.
Welcome to the Forum Philip.
I think your choice of motive power (track-powered, battery, live steam) may have a bearing on how well you get on with the dual-gauge track??
I would have thought you could get some suitable timber 'down there', probably something we have never heard of!
I think your choice of motive power (track-powered, battery, live steam) may have a bearing on how well you get on with the dual-gauge track??
I would have thought you could get some suitable timber 'down there', probably something we have never heard of!