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SpudUk

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Hello Everybody!

My name is Chris, I'm 26 and presently live in Trowbridge, Wiltshire. I've been involved in NG modelling for most of my life, mostly in 7mm with my Dad, but I am not exploring branching out into the garden.

I am currently pursuing ordination in the Church of England, and hope that sooner or later I'll end up with a vicarage with a good enough garden for a garden railway. I'm keen to use it as a way of getting people to visit the vicarage, to raise money for charity etc. and as my "sanctuary" from the hustle and bustle of ordained life.

The initial idea was an SM32 railway, but I'm quite concerned about future child, dog or visitor damage to stock that I've spent months building by hand. So the prospect of SM45 and/or G scale or some variation is an attractive prospect, both in terms of ready-to-runness and durability. I do, however, have a couple of questions.

1) Power - I have a huge concern about track power in the garden. Can G-scale be converted to battery? Is track power nothing to worry about? Can I opperate more then one train at once? I think I like the idea of DCC or Radio Control but I am no electrician!

2) Scale - I like the idea of modelling something that varies between 2' 6" and 3' or there abouts, giving me British, European and American to play with. The prototype I suppose being something akin to the W&LLR which uses a lot of European toys. Is that viable? Could LGB Zillerbahn coaches and a 16mm SM45 loco work together?

Chris
 
Welcome to the Forum Chris!

Most the 'European' outline is metre-gauge, so 'G' / 45mm is fine for that.. The American outline is to 1:29, as opposed to 1:20.5, so although still 'bigger', it will not look too bad if Euro and US formations cross.

We go by 'rule 8' here. - It is MY railway, and I run what I like!

The LGB track-section is well over-scale, but that makes it 'bomb-proof'.

The voltages used in both conventional DC track-power, and DCC are low enough to be of no risk.. The mains power to the transformers / central stations is another matter, but common sense comes into play really.

You will have to build your own (some Bachmann stuff available) for most British outline stuff, though going the W&LLR route would allow you to 'mix and match'.

Others with differing ideas, and much more experience than I will be along in a minute, but it sounds like you are on the right tracks (so to speak)! ;) :D
By the time you have read a few months magazines, and visited the odd show, you will be fine.. Otherwise, the collected wisdom of the Forum is here to tap..

Just don't wait for ordination, and your own Parish to start!
 
Welcome Chris
Great to hear you are carrying on the tradition of the clergy - eg Rev Peter Denny's Trepolpen Railway.

There are some off the shelf radio control battery models available but it's not too difficult to adapt or construct your own - as evidenced by some modellers on this forum. I've recently moved from track-power to battery power and have attempted to share my experiences via my blog (see http://riksrailway.blogspot.com/2013/10/getting-started-with-battery-power-and.html ) but there are plenty of others on the forum with masses more experience and expertise than me who I'm sure would be willing to assist with advice and maybe even hands-on assistance. If I was closer to Wiltshire I'd be happy to lend a hand.

Accucraft produce a good range of off-the-self 3' UK outline models ( http://www.accucraft.uk.com/categories/rolling-stock/ ) and then if you're into kit making then there's always Brandbright - http://www.brandbright.co.uk/, IP Engineering http://www.ipengineering.co.uk/ and GRS - http://grsuk.com/.

All the best - sounds like a really exciting project

Rik
 
Hey Chaps,

You're website is ace Rik, interested by your cheap FlySky idea. I've got a LGB ToyTrain somewhere at home that I'm tempted to attempt to modify to battery and RC for fun...not much of an electrician though and terified of doing it wrong!

Pleased that I'm sort of on the right track (pun!) and I'm keen to balance it being a model railway, with it being a toy train for the kids and visitors. I'm really tempted to get a Bachmann loco and see just how out of scale it is with some G coaches.

Chris
 
If you want to be able to run toy trains for the children there is greater choice for 45mm track. Bachmann do their Thomas the Tank range and Playmobil do some good robust stuff. LGB also do some whimsical things like the Fortuna Flyer and the LCE train. Virtually anything can be converted to battery power by those who know how (not me!).
 
As PhilP has already said, the voltages used by track power for running LGB and the like should not stop you considering this option. Provided that all mains powered transformers are housed in the dry indoors (a dry shed is fine) and preferably protected by a Residual Current Device (RCD) - which can be either wired or simply a plug in adaptor - then all should be fine. Countless of us use this method and the only real area that you should be worried about is the need to keep your track clean so that your locos can pick up current. Installed carefully then there is virtually no safety risk.
 
Welcome to the forum, Chris - maybe I'd better cut back on the "Actress and Vicar" jokes now..... ;)
Hope you enjoy the mix of mild insanity and endless genuine helpfulness that is the norm on here.

As others have said, track power in the garden is absolutely nothing to be concerned about from a safety standpoint - all G scale equipment from the major makers (LGB, Piko, Bachmann and the rest) is designed to work well out of doors, including in many parts of the world that have FAR worse climates than anything we get here. Certainly battery power is something well worth looking at, but not for safety reasons - simply that you avoid (almost) all the hassle of track cleaning!

Ask away - as many have said before, the only stupid question is an unasked one, and whatever you need to know there will be someone on here with an answer. :)

Jon.
 
Hi Chris and welcome.
Personally I'd go with LGB, the track and loco's are very robust and although not always true to scale, look very well in the garden. Its not the cheapest option, but you pays for what you get. Recommend an LGB starter set http://www.dragon-gscale.co.uk/lgb-78403-goods-train-starter-set-with-sound-2411-p.asp
or digital starter set http://www.dragon-gscale.co.uk/lgb-78500-db-digital-starter-set-4848-p.asp
and add on as you go/ when funds allow. Thats what I did and still doing many years latter.
Good luck and let us know how you get on.
 
Hello Chris and welcome, a laudable aim you have there. Like others say LGB and the other "code 332" (refers to rail height in thou") type rail compatible makes, e.g. - Aristocraft, AMS, Piko, Trainline (all mentioned have the same rail profile as LGB), set at 45mm gauge will be your best bet for both robustness, flexibilty and range of prototypes available to you to run on it. Don't get hung up on scales and gauge, commercially available product from 1:32 to 1:13 scale is widely available to run on these 45 mm gauge track systems.

You mention the W&LLR. While this is very well (and will be more so soon) represented in 16mm scale (approx 1:19) with regards to locomotives most of those available are live steam not electricly powered (although while limited this is growing in availability). Likewise a wide range of rolling stock, both RTR and kit based, is available too in the 16 mm scale. The Hungarian stock though will be a fudge as you will have to use LGB's 1:22.5(ish) stock for now. Looks ok though. Most of the 16mm scale product out there is available ready for 45mm gauge use and is usually readily re-gaugable between 45mm and 32mm gauge, either by the simple use of and allen key or swapping out wheelsets (Acuucraft supply both gauges with their rolling stock !) In some cases you may have to swap a bogie out.

Your best bet now is to get yourself up to one of the main shows to take a look see and get a flavour of what is out there. The G Scale Society's G Rail this weekend and the 16 mm NGM Society's show on the 12th April, at Stafford and Peterborough respectivly. A short notice I know and a bit of a shlep. There are others shows that may be closer to home at other times of the year. Concider joining either of these societies anyway, Google the names, you'll find them. The former if you see yourself going mainly DC/DCC, the later if you see the "dark side" looming and a trip into live steam haulage inevitable. Have fun, you are in good company here. We have all seen the light.

Max.
 
maxi-model said:
Your best bet now is to get yourself up to one of the main shows to take a look see and get a flavour of what is out there. The G Scale Society's G Rail this weekend .....
Click to expand...

Don't Panic - its next weekend. http://www.g-scale-society.co.uk/nationalevent.html

Its fair to say that this is long term hobby - your investment will build up substantially over time, so theres no rush ! Were I in your position I would buy for the long haul - fewer better quality items that will last many years. I would also consider a good sectional track system like LGB - maybe not as good looking as a finer flexible track system, but capable of being pulled up and put back down quickly.
 
Chris

Picking-up on some of your original questions

Yes - you can run as many locos as you like with DCC and/or with radio control - so either option would meet your needs

Advantages of DCC - readily available - reliable - accepted standard (others with DCC can visit and run their stock on your line) - plenty of off-the-shelf models - easier to set up than r/c (though this is open to debate)
Disadvantages of DCC - keeping the track clean and maintaining electrical continuity - cost

Advantages of battery/radio control - virtually no track cleaning hence quicker to set up and get running - the technology is improving all the time - works out cheaper than DCC - easier to run alongside live steam (which mucks up the track)
Disadvantages of battery / r/c - not much off-the-shelf - finding room for batteries and r/c kit when adapting models - reliability relies more on the knowledge and skills of the modeller than off-the-shelf kit

The merits of each system are discussed often in the garden railway world and on this forum and there are quite a few differing views on the advantages and disadvantages so no doubt others will chip-in with their take on this.

At the end of the day - it's really down to personal preference.

Rik
 
SpudUk said:
2) Scale - I like the idea of modelling something that varies between 2' 6" and 3' or there abouts, giving me British, European and American to play with. The prototype I suppose being something akin to the W&LLR which uses a lot of European toys. Is that viable? Could LGB Zillerbahn coaches and a 16mm SM45 loco work together?
Click to expand...

1) If you are looking at modelling UK/Colonial/Isle of Mann NG then you will be principally looking at live steam locomotives. The main makers here are Roundhouse and Accucraft UK. These can be both prototypical and "freelance" in their designs. There are some track/battery powered variants of the established "live steam" products emerging as demand grows though, principaly from Accucraft UK. There are some battery/track powered "freelance" and prototypical items, such as railmotors and small industrial locomotives out there, mostly buildable from kits. The names to look out for here are IP engineering, Swift Sixteen and Garden Railway Specialists amongst the many artisan makers. Most coupling here is done with the centre buffer type, some using a "chopper" connection to augment them.

2) The European NG locomotive scene product is predominantly track powered DC/DCC. Best known makers here are LGB, Piko and Brawa. There is a vast range of product here, some very much in the "collectable" class. That is not to say there is not some live steam available too, best known from Regner and Accucraft Gmbh. These are not adaptations of any of the DC/DCC stuff. Most of this type of product is supplied with "hook and loop" type coupling.

3) If US NG is your thing, particularly Colorado and logging line stuff then there is a whole host of both finely detailed 1:20.3 items from Bachmann and Accucraft US and others and Bachmann's more robust "budget" line of Big and Lil' Hauler items that are scaled at around 1:24. These are pricipally DC/DCC "ready" and mostly easily adaptable to battery power. Accucraft US also do live steam equivelents of all thier electric items, where appropriate (You don't get steaming Galloping Geese !). The standad method of coupling US stock is with "knuckle" couplers with some logging fans using "link and pin". The Big/Lil' Hauler products usually have "hook and loop" options with them.

Ways and means have been found in the hobby to ensure that most stock will have compatible couple heights and types between similar loco/stock types. When mixing things up adaptors may be available as ready products or if the mix is a common one someone round here may also have come up with an "elegant bodge" to allow it to happen. I use an adapted short gondola wagon that acts as a "match" truck in these situations. It has a range of commonly used couplers that can be fitted at either end, with shims and blocks to allow for any variance in coupler heights.

All these mentioned makers will have their own websites if you fancy a mooch around. Take a look also at the websites' of the societies I mentioned previously as they have "supplier" pages listing most of the retailers/dealers and manufacturers.
Max.
 
Hi Chris, I was 30 before I got my first LGB locomotive. After that I moved to battery-powered 45mm stuff. Now I model both 32mm and 45mm gauges, though inside in the cellar, after almost 20 years it´s been live steam. No rush, just find what works for you and if you have the possibility, I can only encourage you to visit the exhibitions to get a feeling for what´s going on. Oh yes, I got my first coal-fired locomotive recently, and I´ve got my eye on Gauge 1. That´s really the joy of this particular way of spending your free time. Ít´s never really finished.
 
I'd thoroughly recommend a trip to Stafford next weekend (23rd) for the G Scale Society show, as folks have already mentioned - I realise that Trowbridge to Stafford is a fair run, though quite do-able and not quite as far as we're having to come from Colchester! You will be able to see many of the clubs, suppliers and traders, and talk to a lot of folks who will be able to advise and help. You might even be able to pick up a nice second-hand loco and some track to get you started!
Of course, that depends on you being able to get out of any other commitments that you might have on the Sunday..... ;)

If you do go, let the folks on here know, and we can either look out for you and/or let you know where/when we'll be gathering on the day.

Jon.
 
And the 16mm NGM show in Peterborough is on a Saturday. So no conflict of interests there then Jon ;) Unless, like me, your grandparents counted Saturday as the sabbath. But then Saturday is named after a Roman god, what to do, what to do. What a sinfull soul I am.
Max.
 
maxi-model said:
Unless, like me, your grandparents counted Saturday as the sabbath. But then Saturday is named after a Roman god, what to do, what to do. What a sinfull soul I am.
Max.
Click to expand...
Maybe your sins may be mitigated by a suitable definition of "work" ?
 
Welcome Chris!! Indeed this forum is full of helpful stuff, that's why we are here I think... As has been said don't wait for Ordination and a Parish, strewth I'm an Atheist and I have as much fun as the Christians here. In fact I have more fun because I don't have to run special trams for church services on Sundays, I spose I will when I build a Church.
 
Hi Chaps.

Thanks for all the useful words of encouragement and advice. I've got a few odds and ends of LGB from when I was a wee bit smaller then I am now, so I'll rescue them from my fathers and see what's what. I do like the idea of converting them to battery power though, so you're suggestions are very welcome Rik.

The one thing I am curious about above all is just how out of scale 16mm and G scale elements would be, for example a LGB Zillerbahn locomotive with Accucraft W&LLR Pickering coaches, or the new Accurcraft Sierra Leone locomotive with LGB Hungarian coaches?

Figures are also an area of question. I like having people on my railways, they look like people, and have been considering using 1:20th scale people as a middle ground between G scale and 16mm, could it work? I'm not overly concerned about with it is too scale or not, just whether it looks good enough.

Thanks again for all your tips and help so far!

Chris
 
SpudUk said:
Hi Chaps.

Thanks for all the useful words of encouragement and advice. I've got a few odds and ends of LGB from when I was a wee bit smaller then I am now, so I'll rescue them from my fathers and see what's what. I do like the idea of converting them to battery power though, so you're suggestions are very welcome Rik.

The one thing I am curious about above all is just how out of scale 16mm and G scale elements would be, for example a LGB Zillerbahn locomotive with Accucraft W&LLR Pickering coaches, or the new Accurcraft Sierra Leone locomotive with LGB Hungarian coaches?

Figures are also an area of question. I like having people on my railways, they look like people, and have been considering using 1:20th scale people as a middle ground between G scale and 16mm, could it work? I'm not overly concerned about with it is too scale or not, just whether it looks good enough.

Thanks again for all your tips and help so far!

Chris
Click to expand...

If you've already got some old LGB, Chris, then I reckon your best way to get started would be to build on that - if you've got enough track to get something down and running, then you'll have a great basis for whichever way you then decide to go - you can stick with the LGB tracks (and add to it with any of the compatible code 332 brands already mentioned) whether you decide to stay with track power, move to battery or even try the Dark Arts of live steam....

Re the scales of rolling stock, just apply Rule Eight to it - if it looks right to you, then it IS right! LGB and most of the other manufacturers made very liberal use of the proverbial Rubber Ruler over the years, and their own products vary in "true scale" between about 1/26 and 1/19, but it's all designed and sized to look roughly right when run together.
The same applies to figures - people are different sizes in real life, just collect and use whatever looks right within the limits you decide you can accept. Personally I'm happy to mix most figures between about 1/25 and 1/20, and you can mitigate any visual difference by careful grouping (eg: don't put a 16mm (1/19) figure standing right next to a 1/25 one). A lot of folks even use "toy" figures like Playmobil (personally I'm not a fan of that <ducking below parapet> but again Rule 8 applies).

Whatever you do, just have fun with it! :D

Jon.
 
As a rule the Accucraft range of W&LLR locos, Earl/Countess/Joan/#14 Hunslet and thier matching goods and Pickering coaches are made to 16mm to the foot/ 1:19th scale. Their Isle of Mann stuff is 15mm/1:20.3 scale, by the way.

As previously said LGB and some others tend to apply the "rubber ruler" to their locos and stock. Most of their NG stuff scales out at around 1:22.5. They tend to keep consistent over a specific railway's stock but not between different railways. LGB also have a "prime directive" that everything must be able to negociate an R1 curve/point which tends to lead to some interesting compromises.

Best thing sit what you want side by side and see what you think or stick to one make or theme. Your biggest issue is going to be matching up different couplers and coupler heights when mixing and matching. Very much doable, most of us have worked out one unfeasable coupling to another (ooh err missus). Are you a "rivet counter" or pretty laid back about what and how you run it Chris ? That's the deciding question
Max.
 
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