Even lower cost wireless DCC system

[Greg Elmassian]

Before I posted a low cost, compact DCC system:

Basically this system was the NCE PowerCab system (<200) plus a 5 amp Tam Valley booster ($55) a cheap Wi-Fi access point (about $50) and a cheap laptop running JMRI ($75).

Well, while this system has a full blown Windows 10 pc, and can run programming software, and the entire JMRI system, here's a way to make an even cheaper full featured wireless DCC system.

Start with the $165 NCE PowerCab... You get the really nice hardwired throttle, full DCC programming support, with several modes others do not have.
Add the $55 Tam Valley 5 amp booster
Now for the Wi-Fi support and interface, get the new $110 WifiTrax WFD30:

And you are done!
This module directly supports the FREE iPhone and Android apps (there are 4 free ones) the ones most common are Engine Driver and WiThrottle.

I'll assume you scavenge a 5 amp, 20 volt laptop supply but you can find them for $10 on ebay.

So for $165 + $55 + $110 = $320 you get a full featured 5 amp DCC system with a super hardwired throttle and up to 4 cell phones at a time for wireless throttles.

Pretty hard to beat that deal, especially with the hardwired throttle with a sunlight readable screen and all the programming support.

Greg

 

[itsmcgee]

buy this for $379 and you have 7 amp state of the art unit that can be used with phone app for extra controlers.
ESU 50310 CabControl DCC Command Station w/ 7A Power Supply

 

[Greg Elmassian]

I've seen it, and I won't go on and on about it, but can't see in sunlight. low resolution screen, slow response, poor ergo layout, etc.
I've more than a few people who have bought this and were disappointed.

NCE has a much nicer handheld for your CV programming, even though in this case it is wired.

The NCE system has superior capability in programming modes, consisting, etc.

Greg

 

[Hutch]

Personal opinion prevails, as usual. At 5 amps I am completely satisfied with The Revolution set. I use the 5 amp continuous 8 amp surge Receiver as the trackside unit. About $250 plus cheap power brick. It handles all the CV's in my various engines. It takes some massaging for it to do 14 speed steps.
Revolution DCC TX / 5A RX Set
Note: this is not a solicitation, just a price example.
---Hutch

 

[Greg Elmassian]

There's some fine points of difference here, really 2 completely different systems.

One is track powered and a SYSTEM, where the system understands the trains running and the consists and accessories. The advanced consisting capability of the NCE system is very hard to beat.

The other is a r/c setup where it is basically each throttle has no knowledge of other throttles or locos or consists. Consisting is limited in capability, and it does not support advanced consisting.

I also do not know how the Revolution system handles the higher numbered CV's common nowadays, either, whereas the NCE system does.

Also, additional throttles are basically free as you can use up to 4 cell phones as throttles, where you need to purchase more throttles for the Revolution system since they are unique.

So, back to the topic, if you want an inexpensive, state of the art, full featured DCC system with 5 amps this is pretty darn inexpensive and compact.

I'd really like to keep this to comparing DCC track powered systems, where it is really a DCC SYSTEM with a command station accessed by multiple throttles.

Greg

 

[Hutch]

You are right, the command station in the Revolution is built into the "throttle". I haven't accessed all 1024 CVs that the Revolution supposedly handles, but the low order 255 seem to work fine. I apparently overlooked the fine points in your original post.

{Power to Receiver to Track}

{Transmitter (Central Station)}

Sorry, ---Hutch

 

[Greg Elmassian]

No problem Hutch, always like to see a fellow DCC'r on a forum, there's so much "I hate DCC" on the stateside forums.

Just wanted to show a "pure" system. I would guess that you don't have the same situation as me, where almost every train is a consist and I have several trains and operators at the same time, so handing over consists, and not having to program every loco into every throttle is helpful. Running long trains and a 3.4% ruling grade for about 70 feet has it's effect!

Since most of my consists have multiple diesels and all have sound, the advanced consisting is a "must have" feature for me, having the horn and bell come from the wrong loco in a diesel consist that is 9-10 feed long sounds funny. (It automatically changes where the sound comes from depending on direction, there's also automatic lighting)

There's other benefits but it's also how you run your trains and how many at a time.

 

[dennishodge]

I’ve seen the term “advanced consisting”, but I didn’t know what that would do for me. Here I see some interesting concrete examples. Is “advanced” anything past lashing multiple locos together (direction adjustable)?

 

[Greg Elmassian]

WAY past...

Read here: https://elmassian.com/index.php/dcc/dcc-systems

Greg

 

[dennishodge]

Thanks Greg!

3. Advanced consisting. This is where you set CV's in the loco decoders so they have an ADDITIONAL "consist address" and set other parameters on how the lights, bell, horn, etc. behave in a consist. Once you have set these parameters in all locomotives, then you can command the consist with the consist address, which is a short address, and the DCC system does not need to know this is a consist.

Can you also consist locomotives with different velocity curves? Or just one with similar response characteristics?

You state the Zimo only supports Universal consisting. Is that still the case? The Piko-branded ESU Android-based system I have has, according to your definitions, only Universal consisting.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

The Zimo system is constantly evolving, they are very different from the other companies, they look at the command station as a powerful computer that is intended to have more capability. I have been working with them on their plans and they will have more capability than any other system when complete. This is one of the main reasons I changed to Zimo.

Yes, you can consist any locos you want. The idea of a custom speed table is to normalize an individual loco to a standard curve, normally linear. I speed match all locos with a custom speed curve, but I do it to a "reference" and I map the speed steps to actual scale miles per hour.

So if you consist any two or more of my locos and pick speed step 55, not only are they going the same speed, but they are going 55 scale miles per hour. It's harder to explain than to accomplish.

Speed matching makes very smooth operation in multi-loco consists, especially with distributed power.

Greg

 

[dennishodge]

The Zimo system is constantly evolving, they are very different from the other companies, they look at the command station as a powerful computer that is intended to have more capability. I have been working with them on their plans and they will have more capability than any other system when complete. This is one of the main reasons I changed to Zimo.

Yes, you can consist any locos you want. The idea of a custom speed table is to normalize an individual loco to a standard curve, normally linear. I speed match all locos with a custom speed curve, but I do it to a "reference" and I map the speed steps to actual scale miles per hour.

So if you consist any two or more of my locos and pick speed step 55, not only are they going the same speed, but they are going 55 scale miles per hour. It's harder to explain than to accomplish.

Speed matching makes very smooth operation in multi-loco consists, especially with distributed power.

Greg

Thanks! I understand. You have a clear way of operating.

Universal consisting is kind of irritating in that I have to constantly remove and add locos back to the consist when I want to switch between using them individually and ina consist, because their primary address is always used, and therefore with the ESU system, once I’ve made a consist, trying to use any of the individual loco addresses drives the whole consist. (So if I just want to run one loco by itself for a bit with any of the others still on the track, I have to remove that loco from the consist. )

It seems like advanced consisting is really useful in that I can set up a consist and then leave it alone and either use the loco independently or in the consist without editing the consist all the time.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

That is one of the primary goals of advanced consisting. The mere fact that the consist address is a third possible address that is a REQUIRED feature in an NMRA compliant decoder tells you how important the feature was deemed when the standard was made.

Greg

 

[Trent]

Excellent post Greg! I'm just moving from MA to NH, and have lots of room to finally build the dream railroad. I'm ready to jump into DCC in about 6 months time, so will check back with you to see if you've come up with a new even lower cost configuration! BTW - since you are suggesting Tam Valley stuff - I seem to recall they had some huge announcement they were going to make WRT BlueRail. Their website sat in stasis for some time. I just checked and it looks like they are now up and running and selling systems - but I didn't see anything on this blockbuster deal. Do you know the Reader's Digest version of this? Weren't they going to supply Bachmann or something like that? And finally - your thoughts on Bluetooth control vs. the wifi setup you describe? 150ft with the external antenna is pretty decent for BT - might be all a lot of folks need. Just curious on your thoughts on this.
Trent

 

[Greg Elmassian]

I know the the owner of Tam Valley, and his friend who is basically wringing out the firmware.

It's a cost effective system, but missing a number of features. They ran into an issue programming and at the time, they were unable to completely use service mode for all CV's properly, they could write but not read.

I understand that has been corrected or added, it is still a developing product. I know they will get these things in place, but making a system that works with all decoders is not as easy as it seems at first.

Greg

 

[Trent]

I know the the owner of Tam Valley, and his friend who is basically wringing out the firmware.

It's a cost effective system, but missing a number of features. They ran into an issue programming and at the time, they were unable to completely use service mode for all CV's properly, they could write but not read.

I understand that has been corrected or added, it is still a developing product. I know they will get these things in place, but making a system that works with all decoders is not as easy as it seems at first.

Greg

Thanks Greg - I knew you would be up to speed on it!