Ebay problems

tramcar trev

tramcar trev

all manner of mechanical apparatus...
Just as a word of warning... I sold a pair of Ceramic Kookaburras and the buyer claims they arrived broken. The buyer a) refuses to provide photographic evidence and b) wants a full refund.
eBay are telling me I have to give a refund and I offered to refund AFTER I recieved the goods back and claimed my insurance if they were broken in the post. The buyer wants a full refund including postage and my stance is that the buyer will have to at the very least return the items before any refund is issued.
Ebay say NO I shall refund now and the problem will be resolved between myself and the buyer after I have the Kookaburras returned. I'm standing my ground as they were securely and properly wrapped and packed individually. I have indicated to eBay that until I have evidence that the items were damaged in transit I will be making no refund.

I don't think I'm being unreasonable, how do I know that the buyer has received them in good order and is trying to scam me?

I did suggest to eBay that if eBay insists I give a refund on unsubstantiated breakage that they can please delete my account, to this I have had no response.
 
Certainly interested to see how this goes, how on earth can eBay back the buyer without evidence? The refund policy should include a requirement that the buyer cooperate with a damage claim to the postal service or risk losing the refund too. I've had lower ratings because of my tracked postage costs quoted, despite them being up front!, but they are all recorded because that's the only way to protect yourself from claims of non arrival where eBay just refunds.
 
My dispute with eBay over money, a few years back, ended with me closing my account on-line, whilst on the phone to their rep and him watching. They just don't give a . . . .
 
"Ebay say NO I shall refund now and the problem will be resolved between myself and the buyer after I have the Kookaburras returned". And what if they're not returned, as you suspect will be the case?

I'm with you on this one - unless Ebay want to underwrite your losses incurred by following their instructions.
 
I think it is fair to say that Ebay protect the buyer more than the seller...if it were not for the sellers there would not be an Ebay. My daughter sent an item to a buyer who said he had not recieved the item. Ebay demanded she refund the money.....despite the fact that the person had previous for saying that an item had not arrived(shown on his feedback). My daughter stood her ground so Ebay froze her Ebay account and sent all sorts of threatening Emails. In the end she had to pay the money as Paypal had already refunded the buyer.
What is needed is another aution site to be a big as Ebay.....and give Ebay some competion for a change.
The trouble with Ebay, it is a evil we all use!!
Good luck with your case.
 
This is why when I sell on Ebay when I ship I ALWAYS get Delivery Confirmation which gives me a tracking number and if the item is over a certain dollar amount, I get Signature Confirmation which means someone at the receivers address has to either sign for it on delivery, or go to the post office and claim it. If it was something very valuable I would use Registered Mail, where there is a little postcard on the label that after its signed for, is detached by the postman and that, with the signature, is then mailed back to me. Its more expensive, but your daft if you send something without some form of ability to confirm delivery.

Evilbay's policies are stupid, but they rely on the fact that if there is a dispute and a seller feels cheated, gets incensed and leaves, there is always someone else to take their place, they really don't give a dam but they will gladly charge you up the yin-yang to sell your stuff on their service. Even though they rely on the shear volume of traffic to keep the lights on, I wonder just how long they can keep the business model working if they keep PO'ing the sellers. Sooner or later someone somewhere is going to offer a more equitable auction site and they are going to end up like Myspace, there but not really relevant anymore.
 
I totally agree Trev. I have been buying and selling on Fleabay since 1999 and have had many different experiences with them.
The one of buyers saying that an item has not arrived is easy to obviate as 'vsmith' has said...use a postage system that has confirmation at both ends, Fleabay will use the confirmation as proof and the case will be in your favour.
But a buyer saying that the item was broken has cropped up a few times in the years that I have been selling. In most occasions the buyers either returned the item for a full refund or I gave a partial refund and everyone was happy but.....
I did have a case where I had sold a Wrenn loco to a guy and it was carefully packed and sent off in full working and good condition. The guy said that it was broken and that I should refund him. I, like Trev, offered a full refund (together with both postage costs) on return of the goods.
He replied that he did not return anything and wanted a substantial partial refund. I asked him to send photos of the damage so that I could judge the amount of refund I would give.
He said that he would not take any photos as he did not have a camera of any sort (a lie as he had sold on ebay with photos of his items for sale!).
I could see that this was not going to end pretty so I phoned Fleabay before going to the resolution process and gave them the whole story. They at first said that I had done everything correctly and to go through the resolutions process where I would probably be fine.......
I followed the process to the letter but the s**t immediately gave be bad feedback (the only one that I had ever received in over 2000 transactions). Ebay said that it could not be removed unless the buyer approved it!
What transpired was a complete farce...He was refunded through Paypal and got a fully working £250 loco for free and I got bad feedback. But I persevered and eBay did not take the money back from my account "as a gesture of goodwill' as I had got in touch with them from the beginning. The bad feed back remained and the 12 year 100% record became 99.4.

Moral of the story...when ever a selling transaction looks like going pear shaped due to a buyer being unreasonable, ring up Fleabay first..the buyer will always get the benefit of the doubt but you can make sure that you, as the seller, do not get shafted.
 
I've been following this thread with some interest. As rightly stated at the moment there is nothing that comes anywhere near challenging ebay. I've tried using SPECIALISTAUCTIONS.COM but to date (nearly three years!!) have managed to sell absolutely nothing on that site. Anyone else had sucess elsewhere?
 
"eBay" is the same as "Hoover" is to vacuum cleaners. Unfortunately!
 
ebay mike said:
I've been following this thread with some interest. As rightly stated at the moment there is nothing that comes anywhere near challenging ebay. I've tried using SPECIALISTAUCTIONS.COM but to date (nearly three years!!) have managed to sell absolutely nothing on that site. Anyone else had sucess elsewhere?
Click to expand...
Garden railway items I usually shift via a dealer on a commision sale basis. At an overall cost of 18% of the sale value of the item it provides a reasonable alternative to the combined costs of Ebay/PayPal without any of the comebacks and listing/fulfilment hassle.

I have concidered using other specialist auction houses, e.g. Vectis, for some items as 20% of sold value looks good value given they handle all the hassle of the sale process but have always been concerned of their ability to get to the maximum potential market to acheive a good price. Even with their on-line auction capability.
As a rule I always cost my time into the equation. Sometimes it pays to bundle up a lot and take a hit to allow a dealer to make their margin. But only if I'm sure of the retail values of the item(s). I have used this route when Ebay won't achieve realistic values or I feel I do not understand the market and do not want to take the risks- e.g. when I sold my collection of motorport books.

Horses for courses.
Max.
 
I have an interesting solution. I have found an identical pair of kookaburras that are in pristine condition. I am going to offer them as a replacement if they accept that will be good, if they don't then it may be reasonable to assume they don't want them in which case I'll refund the purchase price, not the postage as they got bought the item then either broke it or changed their mind. Ebay now says that I do not have to refund until they return the goods which is a change, maybe bought on by my threat of closing my account. I sent the item registered and insured but Australia Post wants (naturally) to see the packaging before they will pay up. If the package shows no sign of external damage yet the contents are smashed then foul play can be reasonably assumed..... The buyer hasn't asked for a refund via paypal as yet and I'm not sure how that works, do paypal contact you first or just take the money out of the account? If so there could be problems as I keep my paypal ballance at AU$0, not sure if they can take any refund out of the associated bank account without my endorsement.
Either way I'm tempted to close my Ebay account, maybe just open a "Buy Only" account. To be fair to eBay though this is only the second serious dispute I have had to date, plenty of stuff has gone missing but been promptly resent from Asian sellers who for some reason confuse Austria with Australia. Oh one American seller said "Oh wow man thats Adolph Hitlers birthplace".....
 
Hi Trev,

I only know the UK systems, but here's what I would do - I would advise the buyer that as this is a damaged in post claim , they need to return the item, including the preserved original packaging for either a full refund or a replacement. (the damaged items and packaging should be placed in a larger box so that it is possible for the insurer to examine the damaged packaging, and this should all be returned to you with a tracked method to comply with the insurer's procedures.

Once they had complied with this, I'd provide them with a full refund. (a full refund is the sale price + the shipping costs that you specified, but doesn't include the buyer's costs in returning the item to you, as per eBay's buyer/seller regulations) (uk at least) You may offer to pay their return costs as well, but there's no obligation here and 'Feedback Ransom' isn't something that a buyer can hold you to as per the buyer code of conduct published on their website. If you get any of this, be sure to report it to eBay.

Once you have the item back you will probably need to refund the buyer or send on the replacement item, you wouldn't be able to wait for the outcome of a claim so there is a possibility that you may get burned, but you'll need to take the chance with that unfortunately, but so long as your policy reflects what Australia post want, you give yourself a fighting chance.

To refund through PayPal you will need to transfer the money back into your account before you can process a refund. With sufficient funds in your account, you need to find the original payment and hit the refund payment button, so that PayPal will return their commission as part of that refund. ( be sure the money's in your account so that you can process the refund once the item arrives back with you - I didn't and had some kid email me every few hours for 4 days asking if I had sent his £12 back, it was one of the most stressful transactions that I have had)

I don't think the zero balance idea would work, over here payments are subject to chargebacks which would take the money from you if you weren't cooperative ultimately. Additionally, some accounts are subject to direct-debit-type arrangements, when you put a certain volume of money through them.

A lot of the uk rules are based on the uk distance selling regulations, for which the responsibilities vary depending on whether you are a business seller or not, so there may be differences for the situation in Australia.

I've received a few LGB items that weren't as described - that is , a mallet with stripped gears and some coaches with buckled wheels and a broken bogie frame, but arranged a partial refund to cover the costs of the damaged parts. I'm not sure whether they could be repaired or whether the buyer would accept a partial refund (though I appreciate the problem is one of damaged in the post rather than one of a problem with the description, but it's an idea, as others have suggested)

I got a ceramic item the other week with a broken part, but just chalked it up to experience as the item was a steal at the price I paid.

Best of luck anyway...

Craig
 
Ok seems fair. Only a couple of problems and this is in regard to returning the item. The buyer refuses to accept a replacement and refuses to return insured with tracking, telling me by email that they are not going to be responsible for any damage caused so far. I think the reality of the case is that they decided they didn't like them when they got them as when I check up on them via ebay they are in fact buying and selling antiques and collectibles, they paid way over what I can get a replacement for which is the cheapest option for me....

But I'm not doing anything until they return them as per Australia Posts requirements.
 
The problem with offering advise here from the UK is that Ebay t&c's in different countries can vary. As I am happy to list and ship anywhere on most sales I recently had to agree to the new "Supplementary User Agreement for sellers" that covers these points, including refunds. They can take direct via your PayPal account from an attached fund source if you have previously "agreed". In my experience an actual refund can only take place once the seller and buyer have agreed to annul the sale, otherwise the funds are "frozen" until the dispute is resolved.

I find it very odd that the buyer, as a regular trader, will not give you pictures (even though they appear to have a proven ability to take them), pay for insured return or accept a replacement. While this http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/buyer-protection.html#reimbursement is slanted towards the buyer's rights it also makes it very clear that the onus is on the buyer to return the goods at their cost to the seller in instances of items not being as described - which a broken item claim would come under.

Ebay state in the above policy document that they take into account any correspondence and other evidence (always do these things via Ebay's communications systems and do not use your own e-mail reply function to reply or delete any) when asked to adjudicate in a dispute. If the buyers are regular traders they have a lot to loose if they abuse the system. Three strikes and you are out I think is the rule or worse if they are caught abusing the process. How much feedback do they have and over what period ?

I think, based on your assertions, that the buyer has done enough to leave themslves open to accusations of fraudulent actions - I would call their bluff, Ebay by its own rules would appear to be on your side on this one.

Max.
 
Well, I've had enough. I'm snookered! Aust Post says that any insurance claim has to be lodged by the reciepient and they say they would allow a claim as packaging was adequate. The receipient sent them back to me without making a claim.... I had no proof that the item was damaged on arrival unless I saw the item or at least evidence... It's my word against everyone elses that the goods were intact on posting. The thing is the buyer could have got a refund from me then got a refund from Australia post and I would have lost both my money and the goods...
I have given the buyer a refund less the return postage costs and I tried to close my account with eBay, I tried phoning them and spoke to a person who didn't speak English, can you believe that????? Ebay instructed me to refund fully and that the problem was between me and Aust Post... I politely suggested problems could be dealt with far less acrimoniously if the problem solvers spoke English and could comprehend English in the written form...

I'll sit in the naughty boys corner re eBay for a while I think..... Cut my losses and and and....
 
Sorry Trev, after my experience I suspected no less. You need to re-register with ebay from a different @ddress when you want to go back, they won't accept the old one.

Like I said theyjust don't care!
 
Yes, they are certainly not interested in anything other than making money... Cest la Vie...
 
Yes that is true.... there are real bargains on eBay but like shopping anywhere an idea of the RRP is essential to avoid getting stung.... The vast majority are genuine and honest but it only takes 1 rotten apple to ruin the flavour of the experience....
 
Just for the record I bought an 0 gauge EMU from a guy last October, expensive item £500+, it was quickly sent by Special Delivery ( full insurance avaiable) BUT it was badly damaged on delivery and not repairable.
I sent photos to the seller , who made a Royal Mail Claim, i raised a dispute with eBay a week after receipt. and sent them copies of the photos, I then cut corners and telephoned PAYPAL ( Note not e bay)
who then liased with eBay, a day later Paypal requested i return the item to the seller BY RECORDED DELY. POST, they then obtained online prof of receipt from the tracking number I sent them, 2 days later my payment had been refunded in full by paypal.
So as far as I was concerned as a buyer I received a satisafactory conclusion in a very short time, the seller was still waiting to hear from Royal Mail 2 months later!
 
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