Decoder programmer Info + the SPROG & jmri software

PaulRhB · 24 Oct 2009

This is culled from GSM to try and answer some common questions on DCC programmers and installing decoders. Many thanks to the members who’s post are edited together here. Zerogee, PaulSHolt, Ian, DTSteam, Zman, Graham, Chas, Nick & Dunnyrail.
For reference I personally have 3 decoder Programmers and each has specific advantages.

I'll start with the SPROG and then some questions and answers.

LGB’s MTS PC interface.
Great if you are only using LGB decoders.

SPROG using free JMRI software
Works well with all makes of decoder for programming CV’s to suit you.

ESU Lokprogrammer.
Specifically good for ESU decoders as it allows you to download new sounds to their Loksound range.

(QSI also offer one for their decoders that covers sound uploading.)

PaulRhB · 24 Oct 2009

Section 1
The Software and Hardware.
Buy your SPROG and then download the DecoderPro software, Andrew at SPROG supplies a disc usually, but you will probably find this is a slightly older version which might not cover all decoders. If your decoders aren’t covered go to this site to download the latest version.

http://jmri.sourceforge.net/apps/DecoderPro/Install.html

PaulRhB · 24 Oct 2009

Tour of the Program.
http://jmri.sourceforge.net/apps/DecoderPro/Tour.html

The full manual for extra questions on both basic and comprehensive modes.
http://jmri.sourceforge.net/doc/Manual/

Download page.
http://jmri.sourceforge.net/download/index.html

Important to download production version as this has the bugs ironed out, (the test version is being worked on by the JMRI community)
Follow instructions on the left for installing for the first time and also see the version for windows or Macs, subsequent downloads are easier as you go direct to the download which will also update the decoder profiles.

PaulRhB · 24 Oct 2009

Section 2
Now connect your SPROG to the PC and the track and then switch it on.
I made a simple switch box that allows me to switch the track feed between the SPROG, a DC controller or a DCC controller using a rotary switch. This allows me to program and then test without switching wires around and it also prevents accidentally putting DC or DCC into the SPROG.

PaulRhB · 24 Oct 2009

Section 3
Programming with DecoderPro
Please note this is a typical guide to programming a loco, the link above (http://jmri.sourceforge.net/doc/Man...5659471-c16f-42a1-b73a-d1a3b67127e3.jpg[/IMG]

PaulRhB · 24 Oct 2009

This will appear. This is the main option screen for selecting what you want to do.
The main one we are going to use is the ‘Service mode (Programming Track) Programmer’ button as all the others are to do with setting up preferences.
Under the Tools tab there is a single CV programmer which is quicker if you only want to change one or two CV’s.

Click on the ‘Service mode (Programming Track) Programmer’ button.

PaulRhB · 24 Oct 2009

Section 4
I’ve split the next screen into 3 sections to try and make it clearer. This screen allows you to ident the locos chip to get the correct programming Windows or ’Panes’ to simplify setting CV’s.
-If you click on the set button you can change between Paged and Direct Bit mode programming.
Try Paged first as it has more CV options and if that doesn’t work use the direct bit mode which also covers the majority but might miss some of the higher numbers which you would have to program using the Single CV programmer off the start screen above.
(direct bit programming is quicker to read the decoder. However I think some older decoders don't support direct bit programming.)
-Use locomotive settings for:
This allows you to recall locos already stored on file without having to read the chip every time. (select the loco you want and Open Programmer then go to Section 5)
Decoder installed:
Click on Read type from decoder and it should identify the decoder automatically and you will see the loco stutter a bit as the decoder is read.

PaulRhB · 24 Oct 2009

If the exact decoder doesn’t show up the using the list open up the list and select the nearest one or use the NMRA raw cv list at the top, LGB and Massoth options are shown below. ESU Loksound are under Electronic solutions Ulm.
Also be aware that some decoders are made by one company and branded by another so it can read as the parent company, hence LGB is a sub section of Massoth.

PaulRhB · 24 Oct 2009

Right, now we have the decoder we want we can select the programming panes to suit what we want to do.
Programmer format:
Basic allows only address etc to be changed so go for Comprehensive or if it’s an ESU chip use the appropriate option lower down the list.
Now you can click on Open Programmer, (Unless it’s not highlighted, then see the next step).

PaulRhB · 24 Oct 2009

Now you may find that no such decoder is defined, (see the note at the bottom), this means no specific ‘panes’ are available but this isn’t necessarily a problem as the normal ESU loksound pane will allow you to do most things. This is where you can use the link in Section 2 and the guide to see if there is a new decoder definition to download that is specifically for that one. I just tend to download the latest proved version of DecoderPro as all new definitions are in there.
You can carry on using this general definition though if you go back and select Comprehensive from the list.
Click on Open Programmer.

PaulRhB · 24 Oct 2009

Section 5
This is the Roster entry pane where you can name your decoder and loco for future reference making changes to programming in the future easier,

PaulRhB · 24 Oct 2009

Section 6
Now you have all these panes to choose from and the link to the comprehensive programmer guide in section1 explains exactly what each one can do.
I usually go to the CV pane and read the whole sheet which may take several minutes so that we know how the chip is set up, the loco will stutter along the track as the chip is read so make sure it doesn’t run off the end of your program track.
The other options are to read just the sheet you are looking at or to write all changes or wrtite changes to the sheet that is open.
The other panes basically tell you what you are altering rather than having to keep refering to a CV list and altering things like speed tables etc are shown as a series of sliding controls.

PaulRhB · 24 Oct 2009

Questions and answers, thanks to all who contributed to this compilation Please explain to me why I would ever need one of these SPROG things, Is it because with MTS you can't program all CVs, in all programming modes, but with SPROG you can? If so why not put the money spent on the SPROG to get a decent DCC system in the first place?If your DCC command station has a decent pc interface then you're sorted. There are DCC systems out there that don't have a pc interface, the EZ command, Dynamis and other manufacturers starter units. It is a cheap way of getting all the advantages of a much more expensive system without the cost. Why pay £3-400 pounds for one when you only have 2 or 3 engines and a tiny layout.
As a result if someone's generally happy with their DCC system but maybe now wants to play around with decoder programming in a user-friendly fashion then £50 is a much cheaper option than forking out loads for a whole new system. Might be something you only want/need to do once in a while.

Sprog also has the advantage that I have a tiny unit that plugs into the laptop on the workbench, or at a show, rather than having to set up the controllers just to alter a few things. You can program on rollers on a programming track and then test-drive without having to transfer the loco to another track or to the main layout.
So it is useful if you are on a budget, it can save you £200+ or if your main system is permanently set up and you want to work on the living room table while watching tv.

PaulRhB · 24 Oct 2009

This is culled from GSM to try and answer some common questions on DCC programmers and installing decoders. Many thanks to the members who’s post are edited together here. Zerogee, PaulSHolt, Ian, DTSteam, Zman, Graham, Chas, Nick & Dunnyrail.
 This week I bought a SPROG II decoder programmer, after reading good reports of them from several members on this forum and elsewhere. I bought it in preference to a Massoth or LGB programming module because I use a Mac rather than a PC, and the SPROG (with the free Decoder Pro software) is Mac-compatible. It was a little bit of a struggle to set up properly for the first time - nothing to do with the SPROG itself, but finding and installing all the necessary little bits of software to make it run on the Mac - but with the help of a computer-guru friend yesterday (moral: always have someone on-call who actually knows what they are doing...), it's now all installed and running nicely, and I can start learning my way around the system.
 (Note it’s all there on the JMRI website but read the installation section carefully)

The question is this: with the SPROG/DecoderPro setup, is it OK to program a decoder OUT of the loco - ie: simply connect the decoder's power leads to the SPROG output, so that I can set up the relevant CVs before I install the chip in the loco - or does it need to be connected to a motor etc? I am assuming you CAN do this, because I guess that is how a dealer can pre-program bits of the chip before supplying it, but I wanted to double-check with you chaps before I simply connect it up and the Magic Smoke gets out of the decoder (as everyone knows, once the Magic Smoke escapes from a piece of electronic equipment, it stops working...).
 On Massoth and LGB you have to have the chip connected to the motor - to provide a "load"
You can program the chip but it will say error if you try to read anything without a load. Better to install it so you can test it straight away and get confirmation that it has worked. Shops that have to program it usually have it hooked up to a decoder tester, which includes a motor, so they can test it before despatch.
 The load is required to allow the decoder to send an acknowledgement signal back to the programmer, otherwise you'll get something like "unable to read decoder" error even though you might have sucessfully programmed the CV change.

For a load you can simply use an old spare motor. Doesn't have to be a motor, any load with a few ohms resistance will do, but a motor is best as you get to see something happening. And you can then use to SPROG in command station mode to try driving the motor too.
 A couple of follow-up questions connected with the SPROG and programming stuff: as I've mentioned in earlier posts, I've got a couple of Massoth LS sound decoders to install in locos which already have factory-fitted LGB decoders - the intention was to splice the LS decoder into the track power feeds and use its sound functions only (in effect, just use it like a cheaper version of an LGB aftermarket sound module), leaving the driving and lighting functions to the original factory-fitted decoder. This was partly for simplicity's sake, but also with the thought of not disturbing the loco's original wiring too much, in case I want to remove the LS again at a later date and return the loco to as-built configuration. Now, will I have any problems with this? Will the fact that the driver stage of the LS is not connected to a motor cause any difficulty, either in programming or in function? Will the SPROG get confused by the fact that there are two decoders present, both on the same address?
Would it, in fact, be better to simply remove the factory-fitted decoder and replace everything with the LS after all?

No this will work fine as the Massoth chip will take commands as you program the LGB chip, (motor only provides a load for reading back CV's not programming them)
The LGB onboard chips have a better power buffer too, for dirty track, Massoth sell theirs as a separate item which costs you more. If you piggyback it on the power inputs you will get the best of both decoders and if the LGB one ever dies you still have a spare decoder onboard to wire in
Neil's stuff for Klien Arosa and my Ge4/4 both use exactly this setup with both decoders onboard.
 Will the SPROG get confused by the fact that there are two decoders present, both on the same address?

Nope
 SPROG comfortably works with G scale decoders with it's supplied power unit, and everything else especially current hungry sound decoders without a booster circuit. Andrew Crossland at SPROG is very helpful at problem solving.
I have Sprog and recently got a ESU lokprogrammer too and both work well although I would choose the SPROG for other manufacturers decoders due to the slightly better interfaces. The ESU unit is invaluable for their sound decoders though if you want to be able to download or change sounds, I only need to buy another 9 decoders and it's paid for itself 

I reckon that the lower voltage is more likely to Trip before frying a chip if I make a botch of it.

Beauty of the programmers like the SPROG, ESU etc is that as they only supply a low voltage and current, if you install the chip and then read it back the programmer will tell you if you've connected it up wrong as it will show an error. The programmer is a safe way to check it out before trying it on the track. The ESU and SPROG both allow you to actually test the functions in command station mode.

Reference the ESU Decoder tester
Looks to be a handy little bit of kit - I assume it'll work with any decoder, not just ESU? Does it have any major advantages over simply rigging up a testbed with any old motor as a load?

Works with any decoder the advantage is it tests the function outputs too not just the motor is working, but as long as you don't damage the decoders leads or board in any way the chip is still guaranteed once installed. Personally I've only had one duff decoder and as I tested it with the SPROG before putting the loco back together it was as easy to test it onboard as on a special tester as you still have to connect it all up.

Decoder programmer Info + the SPROG & jmri software

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