dcc the cost

[handyman]

hi everyone.
being totally new to garden railways [aint got 1 yet] im still undecided wether or not to go with dcc.
i know its the best but at the end of the day it all boils down to money.
what would be the initial cost involved and how much have you spent on your dcc,[hope im not being too nosey,tell me to mind my own buisness if you wish]
thanks steve and sandra

 

[darkdaniel100]

Hey there, Being fairly new to DCC Im prob not best to give advice but ....

After purchasing several locomotives then deciding to go Dcc Ive worked out it was not the best way of going about !

Going dcc was a fairly easy move for myself (I only had an lgb starter set and some locos) I purchased the bachmann dynamis set which was a great way for me to enter the dcc world on a low budget ! (£100ish for system)

Chipping the locomotives sadly is the biggest expense , Im a big QSI fan so my locos will all recieve a qsi sound/dcc chip ! these typically set me back about £120-140 per loco plus £10ish for a speaker !


DCC is definatly the way to go if your looking for realistic control , loads of locomotive sounds and loads of other features Ive forgotten to add !

Anyhow just my 2pence worth !

 

[nico]

steve and sandra

Hi steve and sandra.Jeremy s site dragon-gscale.co.uk has prices for DCC.I went for the Massoth system when i started,i found it very straight forward ,just connect it up and away you go,

 

[handyman]

thanks boogybee
very helpfull. so £500 - £600 should kick start me, does not sound as bad as i thought

 

[Cliff George]

Hi Steve and Sandra,

I would spend effort working out exactly what I wanted first, maybe by looking at other peoples railways, manufacturer information etc. Once I had the requirements clear I'd have a look at which DCC systems met those requirements, and at what costs.

I would recommend considering all manufacturers of DCC systems, not just those usually associated with G Scale.

As others have said, it can be expensive getting things wrong.

Questions to ask yourselves (there are probably lots more).

How many locos do you want the DCC system to support and how many do you expect to be operational at the same time?
Is the systems NMRA compliant?
Do you want wireless control?
Do you want your system to be able to program all decoders, and all CVs?
Do you want computer control, or be able to program decoders via a computer.?
What is your budget?
Do you also want to control points, signals etc?

I'm not going to recommend any DCC system without knowing your requirements. I will say that in my opinion there are a lot better systems than MTS available.

If there is anything I can help you with please let me know.

 

[whatlep]

hi everyone.
being totally new to garden railways [aint got 1 yet] im still undecided wether or not to go with dcc.
i know its the best but at the end of the day it all boils down to money.
what would be the initial cost involved and how much have you spent on your dcc,[hope im not being too nosey,tell me to mind my own buisness if you wish]
thanks steve and sandra

This is a bit of a piece of string question. Realistically your requirements are likely to evolve over time, so you may want to consider carefully where you think you could be in 2-3 years time. I've been using DCC since 1998 and my layouts and requirements have changed a lot over the decade.

The cheapest route in is via LGB's MTS, quite simply because there is plenty of reliable second hand kit around. You don't need to have the latest kit. I was using a 1998 Mark 1 system until earlier this year. I only moved on as I'd evolved into a layout where I wanted to have remote operation of points and have more than 8 loco IDs available.

You will need a transformer. Not necessarily from a model railway firm. Maplin's have periodic bargains on suitable kit. Look for items that have a true constant 18 volt, 5 Amp capacity, not peak ratings of that capacity. Spend the money on a decent transformer and you'll be able to keep it for years, without having to upgrade.

You will need a DCC central station and at least one handset. Were I starting from scratch these days, I would consider two routes:
1) 2nd hand LGB MTS2 central station (£100-£150 on EBay), plus an LGB 55015 controller (say £70-80).
2) LGB MTS3 central station (£290 new, less 5% discount from Dragon G Scale), plus a Massoth hand controller. (£ whatever Dragon say!).

Many on this site will say - rightly - that LGB MTS is less sophisticated than Massoth's kit (though both are actually made by Massoth). BUT, will you need that sophistication, now or in the future?

Another thought to consider carefully is your likely requirement for radio control. Neither option above precludes RC, but the 2nd will enable you to use Massoth's which is undoubtedly superior to LGB's.

As others have said, the best thing to do is to visit other peoples' layouts and try before you buy.

Happy to answer questions if you want to PM me directly.

 

[Radish Bahn]

I would advise any newbie to start with analogue. Preferrably with one loco and a small transformer. If at that stage you find it boring, Garden Trains are not really for you!

The most exiting time in my evolvement in Garden Trains was running 4 trains on 2 loops in analogue. Until you have experienced the challenge of keeping them apart you will never actually realise the benefits of DCC.

I went from LGB starter set controller, to 5a, to Jumbo, then to MTS3, MTS3 with Navigator and finally Massoth.

It's not throwing money away because as you upgrade you sell off the redundant equipment. I actually sold the Jumbo on for more than I paid for it!

By the same token, Topogarden Mike who lives not so far from me does things with analogue that I struggle to do with DCC!

Find out what you are doing and how you got there as you develope. I am sure you wont get the same level of enjoyment and satisfaction if you start with the full basket of goodies.

Of course, anyone who knows me thinks I am complely off me trolley!!!!!

I agree completely that starting with something simple like analog control makes a lot of sense. Spend your time and money getting the garden prepared for the railway and laying track. Once it's running you'll be able to decide what interests you the most. If you find out that you like running multiple trains and doing a lot of switching then you can always add DCC later. If your preference is to mainly sit back and watch then analog control would work just fine.

A simple loop with a bypass around your main station will let you run one train on the main line while doing some switching with another locomotive in the station. Each section would be wired to a separate DC throttle. This is the way I have operated both my previous layout for 11 years and my new layout for the past couple of years. (There are pictures of both on my web site.)

My long term plan for the new layout is to use a Zimo DCC system to automate the layout but I'm finding that I'm quite happy for the time being to just have one train running with a couple of others parked. Maybe this will change later but I'm not really feeling any great urgency to spend the money to convert to DCC. It's possible that I never will. At least I can understand and fix my DC system.

Finally, take a bit of time to look at other peoples layouts and make a list of what you most like about them (The garden, the theme, etc.), but don't research it to death. The most important thing is to just get started. It will evolve as you get into it and you'll have great fun building it. It's truly exciting when that first train makes it around the layout and we expect to see lots of pictures posted here.

Welcome and good luck!

 

[GrahamMills]

I fully agree with Cliff George that you need to think through what you may wish to do. We all know that you will change your mind as things develop but that way you have the best chance.

I would add a question to his list
Are you intending to run power hungry large locos since that will affect the power supply you will need.

If you want wireless control then be aware that some of the systems available use a frequency range that is illegal in the UK. You will only notice this when you fail to find anyone in the UK supplying those particular components whilst they will supply the rest of the DCC system. Also some of the systems are designed for 00 gauge and do not handle the volts and amps used by Garden Rail.

I also agree with DarkDaniel100 that if you have a number of locos the cost of chipping them can be very expensive. I am also pursuing the QSI route and having bought myself an FA1/FB1/FA1 set of locos for Xmas I suddenly realised that I was committing myself to 3 more sets of chips/speakers at a cost of circa £450. So they may have to wait for a little while. I still have to chip a second-hand E8 where the cost is grossly in excess of what I paid for the loco.

[Walks away muttering "I must not buy any more locos".]

 

[rjstott]

I notice that a lot of people talk about wireless but there are options here. You can wireless direct to locos or to a central control unit. The biggest initial investment is the central control system, expansion/power units are generally fairly interchangeable. Most central units offer backwards compatablity so spend the money there first, loco units vary widely in price and function and depending on how many you need will become the largest cost item but to start with secondhand older systems can be fine.

My view is to forget analogue as the real features are not there and never will be.

Nobody has thrown in a manufacturer but I think ESU are the bees knees and though the sound capable loco modules are expensive they are brilliant.

 

[spike]

I would advise any newbie to start with analogue. Preferrably with one loco and a small transformer. If at that stage you find it boring, Garden Trains are not really for you!

The most exiting time in my evolvement in Garden Trains was running 4 trains on 2 loops in analogue. Until you have experienced the challenge of keeping them apart you will never actually realise the benefits of DCC.

I went from LGB starter set controller, to 5a, to Jumbo, then to MTS3, MTS3 with Navigator and finally Massoth.

It's not throwing money away because as you upgrade you sell off the redundant equipment. I actually sold the Jumbo on for more than I paid for it!

By the same token, Topogarden Mike who lives not so far from me does things with analogue that I struggle to do with DCC!

Find out what you are doing and how you got there as you develope. I am sure you wont get the same level of enjoyment and satisfaction if you start with the full basket of goodies.

Of course, anyone who knows me thinks I am complely off me trolley!!!!!

Sound advice.

 

[Elmtree Line]

I'm also in agreement.

You may also find along the way that you decide to go battery power or Live Steam, for which you might not want to invest in DCC at all.

I've run multiple trains on my analogue only line, and its lots of fun, i guess if you have a smaller line then DCC is far easier than analogue as theres more likelihood of trains meeting each other!

 

[muns]

Before you make a decision and buy, arrange to go and try some of the systems that are out there so you can get a feel of how easy/not so easy they are to use. There are plenty of people out there who would be willing to let you to visit and have a go with there metho of control.

 

[Philbahn]

Thinkthe choice should be DCC in what ever form it is. LGB Massoth ect. I'm happy with the Massoth . Not perfect but very good. If you want to run more than one train then go DCC.
It is easier no need to block (section ) the track just two wires. Before you commit to a system get youself out there and ask about their ease of use. Or ask on here there are enough views available

 

[KentKeith]

When I started in G-Scale about six years ago my first purchase was the LGB Digital Starter Set - set up the track on the patio, plugged in the wires and had two trains running within 30 minutes. Easy peasy.....

Soon I was expanding my loco fleet and it did not take long to realise that I soon had more locos than the LGB system could handle - without doubling-up on loco ID numbers. It was then that I purchased a Massoth system and have not looked back since then.

One point that has not been mentioned is the size of the garden you have. I'm lucky that my garden is on the large size - about 100ft long - but the downside of this was that at times it was exceeding the range-capability of the LGB wireless system. With the Massoth system that is not a problem - I can sit in the kitchen and control trains running at the end of garden - and none of the commands get corrupted.