Brill 21e trucks for LGB/OcCre/Bachmann trams

Paul M

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Some time back in the forum was a thread about someone in I think Switzerland with G viaducts much like those in the picture, laboriously made using expanded polystyrene sheet to create moulds for concrete.
If you can make them robust enough, they are far more pleasing on the eye then the normal raised lines ( no offence intended, whatsoever). Problem is how to making the robust and having the patience to make them
 

dunnyrail

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If you can make them robust enough, they are far more pleasing on the eye then the normal raised lines ( no offence intended, whatsoever). Problem is how to making the robust and having the patience to make them
Well post 1 on this thread shows one we built earlier, a slightly more robust method than the one I mentioned in Switzerland. Robustness of the finished concrete can be obtained with metal inside much like rebar in full sized concrete structures, I favor scrap ally. Old TV aerials, even old metal bedsteds cut up almost anything that may be chucked out can be used. I think on one of my concrete viaducts I even used scrap plumbing pipe and plastic guttering. So long as it is buried inside the concrete to not be seen it will all do a good job.
 

Fred2179G

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Unfortunately no. The assembled bogies were done by GHB a couple of decades ago now, and its been a log time since NSWL was interested in supplying 45mm Magic Carpet drives
Fosworks in the UK makes a similar drive. https://fosworks.co.uk/products

rs=w:720,h:540,cg:true
 

DafyddElvy

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Fosworks in the UK makes a similar drive. https://fosworks.co.uk/products

rs=w:720,h:540,cg:true
I've started using a couple of Fosworks traction motors, the only down side for me is the gear reduction, a multi reduction gearbox would be my preference.
The other thing I'm not sold on with their arrangement is that they make their own axles which are a larger diameter than that used by any other manufacturers, the ones I'm aware of anyhow.

I am not suggesting their is anything wrong with them, I personally would prefer a multi reduction gearbox and a standard axle size in case I decide to change the wheels from the size or type fitted.

David
 

Fred2179G

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they make their own axles which are a larger diameter than that used by any other manufacturers,
I think they have a model that takes your wheels, so presumably they fit your wheels on their axles.
 

Philippe DUSSART

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Dear all,

The link Les Forums de Passions Métrique et Etroite !! • Afficher le sujet - Motrice d'Istanbul - échelle LGB showed some details about my Brill 21e trucks.
On display at TrainWorld Brussels until end of April.

I am preparing three identical Brill 21e, trucks for two Lisbon trams (one heavy toy - 100% metal - local production with two 5 Watt motors + 1 Occre kit) et one Soller (Occre)

More about tram trucks and wheels:
I do not like Tenmille or Slaters wheels too much.
In essence their diameter is too small and they are just wagon wheels, not tram wheels..

I have started the construction of two Belgium trams. they will be displayed end 2022 at an exhibition about Julien Dulait and the Belgian company "Electricité et Hydraulique":,
- one motorcar of the so called "North company", in fact "Tramways Electriques d'Ostende Littoral", first private company to run trams between Ostend-Mariakerke and Westende, prior to the SNCV/vicinal
- one motorcar with Dulait batteries which was running on the Brussels meter gauge system (not the vicinal !) e.g; to Tervueren, before the take)over by "Tramways Bruxellois" and conversion to normal gauge.
Note: E. & H. is the ancestor of ACEC that produced electric equipment for the 5 continents, for most Belgium trams, including PCC cars of Marseille and Saint Etienne, etc, etc

Here are wheels, made in nickel silver, based on original drawings and NEM/Morop models norms.
Own 3D design, sent to a casting company specialised in tiny bits, like jewels.

We will keep you updated with the details of this exhibition and the progress of these models.

Here under, some pictures

Regards, Philippe Dussart-Desart,
www.tramania.com


MotriceEssieu3D.jpg



ProfilBandageuMOROP.jpg



54252.jpg



54261.jpg


54260.jpg
 

dunnyrail

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I think they have a model that takes your wheels, so presumably they fit your wheels on their axles.
On their advertising Fosworks will fit to any wheel you supply providing the size is not too small. A modest uplift in price applies.
 

DafyddElvy

1:22.5 & 15mm Scale Trams, , NG Steam Railways
10 Feb 2021
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Dear all,

The link Les Forums de Passions Métrique et Etroite !! • Afficher le sujet - Motrice d'Istanbul - échelle LGB showed some details about my Brill 21e trucks.
On display at TrainWorld Brussels until end of April.

I am preparing three identical Brill 21e, trucks for two Lisbon trams (one heavy toy - 100% metal - local production with two 5 Watt motors + 1 Occre kit) et one Soller (Occre)

More about tram trucks and wheels:
I do not like Tenmille or Slaters wheels too much.
In essence their diameter is too small and they are just wagon wheels, not tram wheels..

I have started the construction of two Belgium trams. they will be displayed end 2022 at an exhibition about Julien Dulait and the Belgian company "Electricité et Hydraulique":,
- one motorcar of the so called "North company", in fact "Tramways Electriques d'Ostende Littoral", first private company to run trams between Ostend-Mariakerke and Westende, prior to the SNCV/vicinal
- one motorcar with Dulait batteries which was running on the Brussels meter gauge system (not the vicinal !) e.g; to Tervueren, before the take)over by "Tramways Bruxellois" and conversion to normal gauge.
Note: E. & H. is the ancestor of ACEC that produced electric equipment for the 5 continents, for most Belgium trams, including PCC cars of Marseille and Saint Etienne, etc, etc

Here are wheels, made in nickel silver, based on original drawings and NEM/Morop models norms.
Own 3D design, sent to a casting company specialised in tiny bits, like jewels.

We will keep you updated with the details of this exhibition and the progress of these models.

Here under, some pictures

Regards, Philippe Dussart-Desart,
www.tramania.com


MotriceEssieu3D.jpg



ProfilBandageuMOROP.jpg



54252.jpg



54261.jpg


54260.jpg
Might the traction motors become available to us in Scotland, it looks like just the thing I could be looking for?
 

DafyddElvy

1:22.5 & 15mm Scale Trams, , NG Steam Railways
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On their advertising Fosworks will fit to any wheel you supply providing the size is not too small. A modest uplift in price applies.
The Fosworks units seem quite good, I have a couple under a Bachmann conversion, they haven't yet been run very much but I don't have any reason to believe they won't perform over time as hoped.

I'm not sure I would use the words modest uplift to use wheels other than the ones supplied as standard, it's about a 20% uplift, but as we all know the customer pays for what they want unless one builds their own traction motor units.

I use both Fosworks and Appletree at the moment, for slightly different configurations.
 
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dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
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The Fosworks units seem quite good, I have a couple under a Bachmann conversion, they haven't yet been run very much but I don't have any reason to believe they won't perform over time as hoped.

I'm not sure I would use the words modest uplift to use wheels other than the ones supplied as standard, it's about a 20% uplift, but as we all know the customer pays for what they want unless one builds their own traction motor units.

I pause both Fosworks and Appletree at the moment, for slightly different configurations.
Ok so it sounds worse at 20%, but you have to remember that extra work takes time and as they say time is money. I do not feel that the £9 is too high a price to pay for bespoke work, I may be using a couple in my Col Stephens Railcar in Gauge 3 if I ever get round to em. So that £9 will be money well spent for 2 power units for that scale.
 

Philippe DUSSART

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Some time back in the forum was a thread about someone in I think Switzerland with G viaducts much like those in the picture, laboriously made using expanded polystyrene sheet to create moulds for concrete.

I've started using a couple of Fosworks traction motors, the only down side for me is the gear reduction, a multi reduction gearbox would be my preference.
The other thing I'm not sold on with their arrangement is that they make their own axles which are a larger diameter than that used by any other manufacturers, the ones I'm aware of anyhow.

I am not suggesting their is anything wrong with them, I personally would prefer a multi reduction gearbox and a standard axle size in case I decide to change the wheels from the size or type fitted.

David

David,

I am with you. Magic carpets are not available anymore, I have been in touch with Fosworks and Apple.

All this might work for many of us, but I feeled forced to design my own stuff for the following reasons:

- the total cost of custom built is about the same as commercial offering, for say a minimum of 5 trucks.
- I wanted a power system more compact than traction wheels. I came to motors of max. 22mm of diameter and 29 or 32mm of length (according to design).
- proposed power (Watts) is low. Hence robust Swiss motors. Power is also needed for trailers.
- proposed voltage (3V or 12 V) is low for most LGB/Piko power supply (18V to 24V)
- stainless steel or brass instead of plastic for robustness (gears, frames, etc)
- Brexit: custom-built wheels, cast in the EEC are cheaper than UK made wheelsets. (including taxes and home delivery)

The only draw-back are study time, assembly time, etc. But this is an hobby and the result more enjoyable that commercial offerings (at least for me).

Technical note: these new wheels can be fitted on 3mm or 1/8 inch axles.

Regards, Philippe
 

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
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David,

I am with you. Magic carpets are not available anymore, I have been in touch with Fosworks and Apple.

All this might work for many of us, but I feeled forced to design my own stuff for the following reasons:

- the total cost of custom built is about the same as commercial offering, for say a minimum of 5 trucks.
- I wanted a power system more compact than traction wheels. I came to motors of max. 22mm of diameter and 29 or 32mm of length (according to design).
- proposed power (Watts) is low. Hence robust Swiss motors. Power is also needed for trailers.
- proposed voltage (3V or 12 V) is low for most LGB/Piko power supply (18V to 24V)
- stainless steel or brass instead of plastic for robustness (gears, frames, etc)
- Brexit: custom-built wheels, cast in the EEC are cheaper than UK made wheelsets. (including taxes and home delivery)

The only draw-back are study time, assembly time, etc. But this is an hobby and the result more enjoyable that commercial offerings (at least for me).

Technical note: these new wheels can be fitted on 3mm or 1/8 inch axles.

Regards, Philippe
Agree that the lack of smaller wheel options is likely to be an issue with some users of the Fosworks product.
 

Philippe DUSSART

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Timmo,

Brill is an American company that produced trams and tram trucks. Some companies bought ready to run trams, other just trucks.

Brill 21E is a twp-axle truck (see my first post and Istanbul tram pictures). Various gauges were possible, as well as the distance between axles.

Brill 22e is a 'maximum traction" type, a kind of "bogie" with two sets of unequal wheels (see Lisbon picture)
Big wheels for traction trough a motor, the small wheels usually free wheeling and guidng in curves.
The "Maximum traction" term is misleading, as traction is not really better than traditional trams with two fixed axles.
Maximum traction and bogies allow longer and heavier trams

Nowadays, equal wheels bogies are widespread.
This set-up also allows four motors instead (one per axle). There are also bogies with three axles.
So from a traction point of view, bogies are far better than "maximum traction", from a power point of view, but also enable better acceleration/pulling power without slipping and provide quicker braking as well.

Regards, Philippe