Back and forth trolly track with a switch

timichl100

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The next addition to my scene is a trolley line that automatically runs back and forth. However, I want to throw a point in the line that switches in a Y where the trolley would start from the main, then shuttle to the right track, pause at the end, return to the start position and pause, then move to the left track and pause at the end and return to the start position again back and forth. Basically, I would need some control to switch the point every time the trolley returns to the start position.

I need ideas for the controls for back and forth, switch mechanism, power, and anything else I may have missed. Any suggestions, recommendations, hints thoughts, comments, etc. would be welcome. Planning on strictly DC for this line with mostly the Bachman trolleys but may throw Thomas and Clarabelle on there occasionally.

1706366279207.png
 

dunnyrail

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The next addition to my scene is a trolley line that automatically runs back and forth. However, I want to throw a point in the line that switches in a Y where the trolley would start from the main, then shuttle to the right track, pause at the end, return to the start position and pause, then move to the left track and pause at the end and return to the start position again back and forth. Basically, I would need some control to switch the point every time the trolley returns to the start position.

I need ideas for the controls for back and forth, switch mechanism, power, and anything else I may have missed. Any suggestions, recommendations, hints thoughts, comments, etc. would be welcome. Planning on strictly DC for this line with mostly the Bachman trolleys but may throw Thomas and Clarabelle on there occasionally.

1706366279207.png
LGB EPL can do this, a point motor with auxiliary switch and a couple of sensors.
 

Software Tools

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LGB EPL can do this, a point motor with auxiliary switch and a couple of sensors.

Just about any sensor system can be made to work. All that is essential is an electrically operated point that can be trailed through without causing a derailment.

A sensor is installed on both the Bench and Palace routes well clear of the point, and wired such that when it is activated the point switches to the alternative route.... in logic terms it is a simple flip-flop function Both branches should have the shuttle control set up in an identical way. There are a number of different shuttle control options around nowadays and finessing the detail will depend on which one the OP selects.
 

timichl100

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Sorry, but the answers I am getting seem to be a little vague. Does the LGB 10345 auto reverse have the capability to send a signal to the point to change direction when the trolly has returned to the start position, point A, and ignore it at points B, bench, and C, palace? Is the LGB EPL swith the device that could receive it and play nice with it? I guess I would need some sort of sensor and switching mechanism at point A to tell the switch to change when the trolly returns to point A. I think an IR sensors would be difficult since they could be affected by outdoor elements more easily. Call me a little confused on this.
 

dunnyrail

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Sorry, but the answers I am getting seem to be a little vague. Does the LGB 10345 auto reverse have the capability to send a signal to the point to change direction when the trolly has returned to the start position, point A, and ignore it at points B, bench, and C, palace? Is the LGB EPL swith the device that could receive it and play nice with it? I guess I would need some sort of sensor and switching mechanism at point A to tell the switch to change when the trolly returns to point A. I think an IR sensors would be difficult since they could be affected by outdoor elements more easily. Call me a little confused on this.
This book will give you details of how the epl system works, page 105 gives details. Though your exact requirement is not shown, once you get your head around the EPL system it is pretty easy to get to grips with what can be done for your needs. 2 point motors one to change the actual point (I am not a great fan of point trailing) the second with an auxiliary switch can act as a relay flip flopping the way the point will change reliant upon 3 track sensors, 1 in each siding the third in the start position. The auxiliary switch can also reverse the power if one set of contacts wired up as a DPDT.
 

Software Tools

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Does the LGB 10345 auto reverse have the capability to send a signal to the point to change direction when the trolly has returned to the start position, point A, and ignore it at points B, bench, and C, palace?

No, it doesn't, you need more than just the reversing unit. All the reversing unit will do for you will is the back and forth action. You need some separate circuitry to control the point (and therefore which branch destination the loco will run to)

Diagrammatically this is what you need to do at a conceptual level.... what wires etc you need to run will depend on that exactly what
sensor and reversing unit components you decide to use.

IMG_6869.jpeg
 
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dutchelm

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I have used an automatic shuttle on a show layout but used a branch at each end. Each branch has 2 sensers, the first to operate the point at the remote end & the other to operate the reverser. A total of 8 sensers, 2 electric points & a reverser. To reverse the vehicle I have a decoder in the vehicle with CV58 programed to the required time delay. The reversing sensers operate a point motor with an aux switch which reverses the polarity of the supply.
When a vehicle approaches the end of the line the first senser changes the point at the far end. the second senser reverses the polarity of the track. The vehicle realises it should be going the other way, slows, waits & then moves off in the other direction, to the other branch. All this uses EPL reed switches.
 

playmofire

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What is in mind does seem a bit intricate. Why not have the loco going out one way and back another with a station stop each way.
 

timichl100

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No, it doesn't, you need more than just the reversing unit. All the reversing unit will do for you will is the back and forth action. You need some separate circuitry to control the point (and therefore which branch destination the loco will run to)

Diagrammatically this is what you need to do at a conceptual level.... what wires etc you need to run will depend on that exactly what
sensor and reversing unit components you decide to use.

Thanks for the insight. Okay, so I found this video on you tube that shows what looks like what you are describing and realize this is pretty much what I am looking to do. I can see the need for the auto reversing unit, but I'm not too sure on the sensors that are needed or the switch servo controller.

Raising more questions, does the point need a servo motor or can a regular momentary switch work on a standard point?
Do I set the stopping point of "B" and "C" with the same configuration diode similar to the LGB auto reverse unit?
If I decide to just run one trolley at a time how will the system work?
Basically, what are all of the parts I need?
This is starting to become more of a challenge than I expected. But I do love a good challenge.

 

The Shed

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LGB EPL can do this, a point motor with auxiliary switch and a couple of sensors.

As per dunnyrail dunnyrail comments from post #5 above.

Two point motors LGB 12010, one to change the actual point at X, and the second with an auxiliary switch LGB 12070 to activate point X as in either (d) or (n) from the three track sensors LGB 17100, one in each of the spurs C s & B s, and the third at position A s.

Idea created from the Explore the World of LGB pdf, How Do EPL Drives Work?,page 113.

EPL Idea.jpg

EPL Shematic.jpg

Proof of concept, that the above schematic does indeed work!
EPL Idea Proof of concept.jpg
 
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timichl100

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Shed,

Thank you, and everyone else for the info and especially the product list and schematic. I assume I will still need the auto reverse unit as the separate track power circuit as well as an extra diode and track for the third leg. I'm looking forward to trying the concept.
 

pugwash

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Basically, I would need some control to switch the point every time the trolley returns to the start position.

I need ideas for the controls for back and forth, switch mechanism, power, and anything else I may have missed. Any suggestions, recommendations, hints thoughts, comments, etc. would be welcome. Planning on strictly DC for this line with mostly the Bachman trolleys but may throw Thomas and Clarabelle on there occasionally.
It sounds silly in the age of fancy electronics but an EPL setup and a shuttle unit would do this admirably. It is what I had on my G railway between an upper and lower station and the shuttle allowed a pause at each station before returning.
All done with magnets and mirrors :)
 

viaEstrecha

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It sounds silly in the age of fancy electronics but an EPL setup and a shuttle unit would do this admirably. It is what I had on my G railway between an upper and lower station and the shuttle allowed a pause at each station before returning.
All done with magnets and mirrors :)
Wot, no smoke? :rofl:
 

timichl100

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Wot, no smoke? :rofl:
Amazing to think that over 50 years ago we were using analog switches, relays, meters, etc and sent men to the moon and back. Since digital came along no humans have gone back. Just sayin'.
 

pugwash

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timichl100

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As I am still waiting for a couple of parts to build a proof of concept for this layout, I was reviewing the schematic and image provided by Shed. I see the working function for the point to switch to each leg based on the sensor connections and the EPL switch. However, the power to the track, not shown, looks like it would allow only one trolley for the whole track based on how the track would be powered, unless I am missing something.

Now for the 2 part question. Based on the video I posted before, how would the track power be routed to allow two shuttles to run back and forth? Would this be able to be switched easy enough to run one shuttle if desired if it was set for two?

 

timichl100

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Finally received all of the components and gave it a trial run. Works wonderfully for the single trolley and I'm okay with that. Thanks to all for the guidance. I'm looking forward to building it this spring.