Aristocraft points

[Fairlie]

Another beginner's question!
I have just bought a pair of second hand Aristocraft R1 points (the first points I have had). I understood that the edges of the flanges were supposed to ride on the bottom of the plastic frog moulding as the wheelsets passed through, to avoid jolting. However, using Bachmann and Accucraft stock, the flanges drop right in, giving a pronounced jolt. Is this normal, or are Accucraft points designed for deeper flanges? I imagine that I can fix it by gluing a strip of plastic along the groove, but I thought that I would consult the experts first! Malcolm.

 

[Gizzy]

I believe ART made a new frog which can be retro fitted to older R1 points?

Someone here will know for sure....

 

[Gizzy]

[h2]Malcolm,[/h2] [h2]I found this info by GOOLGLING Aristocraft Points Modification....[/h2] [h2][/h2] [h2]http://www.trainweb.org/girr/tips/tips2/aristo_turnout_tips.html [/h2] [h2]Frog Modifications[/h2] The first and most annoying problem was the tendency of 4 wheel rigid wheelbase locomotives (such as LGB and Lehmann), to stall on the turnouts. In fact, it was not a "tendency" but more of an "every time" kind of thing. Aristo locomotives have independently rocking axles and are more tolerant to these turnouts. The problem is that the frogs are about 15 mils too high. When a driver wheel runs over the frog, it picks up that side of the engine and lifts the other driver on that side off the track. The plastic frog is long enough to allow a driver and the slider to rest on it, so as soon as the slider and one wheel move onto the frog, the engine stops dead. Each and every turnout did the same thing. This had to be fixed.
The solution was to remove every turnout from the layout and mill off the excess plastic. This had to be done not only on the top of the frog, but in the flangeway as well. The standard height of a large scale flange is 0.125". The flangeways are also 0.125" deep so that even if the top of the frog is milled flush with the rail without milling the flangeway as well, the flange will ride in the bottom of the flangeway and hold the wheel up just the same as before.
I had access to an end mill so I clamped every turnout down flat and milled off the frogs flush with the railhead and then milled down the flangeway so that it was once again 0.125" deep. This fixed the frog problem completely. I would hope that Aristo fixes their molds for future production runs.
I had initially tried to modify the frogs with a Dremel tool, but a hand held tool is just not adequate. I made the turnout work, but it was real ugly. If you modify the frogs, you need to find a friend with an endmill. If you completely mess up a frog, you can get a replacement frog from Aristo.
As of March 1999, Aristo has apparently changed the design of the frog such that this tedious mill work is not necessary. The frogs are now even or slightly below the railheads so that the above mentioned problem does not occur.

 

[yb281]

We have this problem with the Aristo points on the West Mids GSS layout. As Gizzy's post says, this is caused by LGB and Bachmann wheels being lifted slightly off the rails as the plastic flangeway isn't deep enough rather than being too deep. We have had to file some of the plastic away to avoid this - it's a pain in the butt. The fact that the points have quite long plastic frogs doesn't help either.

 

[Gizzy]

You could try asking Aristo about the frog mod Malcolm?

Their e-mail is:

aristo@mindspring.com

 

[The Devonian]

Malcolm. Your initial post mentions both Aristo-Craft and Accucraft. I wonder which ones you actually have? R1 is also not an Aristo description of their 4ft. dia, points.
However, Aristo-Craft do supply replacement frogs - $1 each. I replaced eight of my switches with these newer frogs. I bought other items from Aristo at the same times. I don't think the price has changed.

 

[Fairlie]

Hi all.
My points are Aristo, the rolling stock is Bachmann and Accucraft. The flanges on both of these seem about the same. The problem with my Aristo points is that the frog groove is too deep, not too shallow, by about 25thou, so that the wheel drops into the frog. The problem described by Gizzy and yb281 seems to be the exact opposite.

 

[Tim Brien]

The posts later in the thread are referring to the Aristo wide-radius switch (10 foot diameter). I am not aware that Aristo released a replacement frog for the four foot diameter switch. The four footer was a 'dog' and not very highly thought of.

Aristo tend to design a switch frog to be flange bearing in that the flange rides through the frog and not the wheel tread. If the flangeway depth is too deep then simply build it up with styrene the required amount. The factory mod for the Aristo #6 is simply this, a snap in metal strip to reduce the flangeway depth.

 

[Fairlie]

Mine are four foot diameter. I agree that they are poor. The electrical connections are feeble, and the check rails are too far from the running rails. I can easily correct the overdeep frog groove, but I am amazed, as a beginner, that I can so easily find fault with the design of a major manufacturer. You live and learn.
Malcolm.

 

[Tim Brien]

Malcolm,
you must have sourced examples of the very earliest production. Design was so bad that Aristo offered a replacement policy many years ago to get these off the market. Power strips would fuse with very little load and overall design was totally unacceptable. Later releases were very much better. Aristo did learn, but it did take many years and many, many complaints to rectify the designs. Today's product is as good as any other manufacturer.

 

[JRinTawa]

Malcolm, I'd say it would be worth gluing a strip in the bottom of the flangeway as you mentioned specially if your mostly/only running Accucraft wheels. However I only have Aristo's wide radius turnouts so I can offer any advice from presonal experience.

 

[Shawn]

I always thought the problem with aristo switches were the frogs were not deep enough? causing the wheels to ride up and over. If thats the case take a dremel or file and file down the flanges. I did that before getting the replacement frogs and it worked great.

 

[The Devonian]

Many thanks Tim for putting some flesh on to the bones of my post.
Some years ago, reading a post on a Forum, I saw the comment "if I have a bad loco I know what to do with it" which translated meant sell it. I, only once, bought three 1ft. lengths of LGB second hand track: big mistake as it was well past its best life. They are used as a static display pieces along with weathered plastic wheels and other 'railroad' junk. Good trackwork, in my view, is essential to trouble free (usually) operating.
My view since is to avoid second hand locos or track only buying the occasional freight car which can be simply repaired or kitbashed - unless, of course, I personally know the vendor.

 

[Fairlie]

Thanks to all. As I said, you live and learn. Malcolm.