Aristo Dash 9 DCC/RCC connector query

[DaveB2]

Hello everyone.

I’m looking to tap into the group knowledge again, If I could think up the right phrase to search for I’m sure the answers out there but up to now I’ve failed so I’m asking.

So the background story, I had an Aristo Dash 9 for Christmas, thanks B (wife). My plan is to convert to radio & battery using the DT system from this thread http://www.gscalecentral.net/controls-signals-and-electronics/purpose-built-train-rc/
I’ll be using the Rx102 that Rik mentions without the onboard ESC and an external ESC to give me the current and voltage range I think I need.
Power is coming from a 4s Lipo pack which looks to fit easily in the available space and while I understand it may not fly I don’t have a large enough garden to really justify a loco this large never mind race it.
I asked about sound and got a fairly unanimous vote from you guys for the Phoenix system so having tried Sandy’s patience at Scottish Garden Railways with my noob questions I have a P8 which while I can’t compare with any other manufacturers solution sounds good and has a volume range of “mmm…” to “you can turn that down” – I’m sure outside it’ll seem quieter

OK nearly question time. On the PCA that carries the switches etc are the headers where you’d be plugging in your DCC card if you choose that route. First job is to remove the dummy plug which allows it to run from old school DC track power. That plug bridges the first 4 pins each side, one and two being track pick up, three is power to motor and four lamp control.

http://www.aristocraftforum.com/techinfo/dcc%20rcc%20pin%20connectors/index.html

I'm thinking for a neat installation that I can build on the bench then drop in I could use a section of Vero board and plug it into those headers, make my own RCC. I believe to make the loco basically “go” all I need to do is connect my esc output to pins 3 and 10 and I’m moving.

Now let’s talk lights, the out of the box loco has lights which don’t of course work well at low / no speed, but I'll have direction outputs on my Rx which stay on even at a stop and a battery.

Questions… To make the lights work “properly” do I simply apply battery power to pins four and nine and use the Rx direction output to control the polarity of that connection? Also is there a reason for the doubling up of track power pins over motor output pins other than it’s how all the power gets to the DCC board and lights, sound, smoke etc all add up?

I’m afraid I have no pictures, and we all like pictures, but maybe it’d be worth me taking a few for the next noob who does this?

Thanks in advance

Dave

 

[PhilP]

Firstly, you obviously feel confident enough to 'cut and shut' this installation?? - Sorry, do not know your level of ability with a 'hot-stick'..

Track-power pins are doubled-up for extra current into the board, yes.
You can get away with using the existing header plug, by cutting the track on the little bit of PCB, and careful soldering of your new wires to said board. - Buying a new header-strip, and veroboard will give you more scope to experiment though.

When I install DCC on these, I make-up a little relay board and switch the 'DC' output from the decoder through this to give directional volts to the existing board. - you get lights immediately, all the effects work, and you can also use the original switches for lights and smoke. (More on smoke, later).
I do not feed the motors through the original board. - I would especially suggest this with an external, potentially, high-current battery feed. Less likely to blow the board if an error is made! Don't ask how I know!!
This board gives direction-dependent DC to the original PCB, and you can control the power to the relay to switch the lights off independently of running the loco if you wish. - This is easy with DCC, as you use the Interior light decoder OP to power the (relay) board, but the constant DC from the decoder is switched through to the original PCB.

If you have a spare output on your RC gear, you can feed the supply to the smoke unit from the board, through a RC controlled relay to give you remote control of that function to.

You are definitely on the right-lines in keeping the original board.. Lighting functions, and the way the LED's (on later models) are commoned-up can make it a nightmare to rewire/rework them.

PM me if you would like some more info on my little relay board, and a wiring diagram.
PhilP.

 

[Tony Walsham]

Hello Dave.
You might want to consider one of these for your installation http://www.rcs-rc.com/pages/pnp-adpt
Four different versions are available. A 3 amp should be adequate depending on what sort of load the Dash9 will be hauling.

 

[DaveB2]

Thanks for the replies.

Phil –

Confident ? Well there’s some trepidation at messing with the loco but that’s probably around damage to the finish or creating myself a whole heap of work to finish it by going in without a plan.

Ability with the “hot-stick”? I know a bit more than which is the holdy end and which is the hurty end but it’s been a while since they paid me to do it.

I had no plans to reuse the header as I’m confident I can acquire more easily enough and I assumed a need to put something (to be identified) between the low current Rx direction output and the existing light inputs which I’d planned on proving on an external breadboard then moving to Vero for the long term.

Smoke? Depends on how much it takes from the battery and how that affects my run time. I’d like it to still be available but I won’t be running it from the Tx but be happy for it to remain manually switchable as it is now.

Fair call on the motor power not going through the existing PCA – I feel I may have been subject to similar learning experiences in the past I was planning on checking things out with a current limited power supply and fitting a fuse but it’s one less way to fail when it’s out in the wide world.

Yes I’d be interested to see how you drive your relay, I’d planned on the Rx driving a logic level FET then a 5v relay powered by the Rx/ESC BEC to do the presumed polarity switching as I have a few 5A DPCO’s “left over”.

Tony –

That is simply genius, I like it. Is it available from anywhere a little more local to me? Have you thought of a version with a wire-wrap / tripad area instead of the bridge and smoothing components for home brew projects?

Thanks again both

 

[Neil Robinson]

Tony –
That is simply genius, I like it. Is it available from anywhere a little more local to me?

As you're on line at present and Tony isn't I don't think he'll object to me drawing your attention to this page of his website.

http://www.rcs-rc.com/pages/international-agents

 

[DaveB2]

As you're on line at present and Tony isn't I don't think he'll object to me drawing your attention to this page of his website.

http://www.rcs-rc.com/pages/international-agents

To quote Homer.. Dohhh!
Maybe I should reconsider the task if I can't even find a link to a supplier

 

[PhilP]

Dave,
Will have a 'brew' and sort out some piccy's and a rough circuit diagram for you..
PhilP.

 

[DaveB2]

That would be great, I shall have to start looking through my bits and bobs store to get putting something together.

Thanks

Dave

 

[Tony Walsham]

DaveB2.
If you are not planning on using track power the bridge rectifier and electrolytic cap can be left out. They are to polarise and filter track power only.
There are two battery terminals on the pcb.

Sorry I don't do kits and my UK agents do not handle them as yet. The demand for that sort of item in the UK is not great. I understand the postage is high to the UK even though they weigh nothing. That is because they are too thick for a letter rate. Have to be sent at the minimum 500 gram packet rate. Grrrrrrrrrr!! Auspost.

 

[DaveB2]

Sorry I don't do kits and my UK agents do not handle them as yet. The demand for that sort of item in the UK is not great. I understand the postage is high to the UK even though they weigh nothing. That is because they are too thick for a letter rate. Have to be sent at the minimum 500 gram packet rate. Grrrrrrrrrr!! Auspost.

It's still a good idea Tony, basically a professional version of what I was thinking of making up with Vero and header pins. If I could see me needing a few and had access to the kit still I'd consider making a PCB version for myself but all things considered I'll probably stick with stripboard.

Don't be too down on Auspost, I've just bought a Lipo monitor from a China supplier on ebay, the cost including postage was less than it would cost me just to post a packet to China - so it's not just you.

Dave