4-4-0 locomotives

[seigezapf]

I’m interested in G scale 4-4-0 locomotives like the General from the Civil War Great Locomotive Chase fame.



I know several manufacturers have made 4-4-0’s.

LGB’s golden spike set is beautiful but costing $5K – $7K+ and the brass Delton 4-4-0 at around $3k are a bit out of my reach.

I know Bachmann Spectrum also made a 4-4-0, but it has been discontinued, looks to be hard to find, and no doubt therefore pricey.

Kalamazoo/Hartland has a more reasonably priced locomotive. The proportions look a bit different from the 4-4-0 General but maybe that is true of all G scale models.

Finally there is New Bright (gasp). Certainly priced right, but obviously toy grade. Maybe with some paint and added weight - or is that just putting lipstick on a pig.

I’m hoping that those who have tried the available 4-4-0’s (or others I don’t know about) would share their experiences. I’m not looking for a workhorse or something to pull a lot of cars. More something to just run once and a while on my outdoor track. And obviously something that is moderately priced if that is possible.

Thanks,
Craig

 

[dunnyrail]

I’m interested in G scale 4-4-0 locomotives like the General from the Civil War Great Locomotive Chase fame.

View attachment 314041

I know several manufacturers have made 4-4-0’s.

LGB’s golden spike set is beautiful but costing $5K – $7K+ and the brass Delton 4-4-0 at around $3k are a bit out of my reach.

I know Bachmann Spectrum also made a 4-4-0, but it has been discontinued, looks to be hard to find, and no doubt therefore pricey.

Kalamazoo/Hartland has a more reasonably priced locomotive. The proportions look a bit different from the 4-4-0 General but maybe that is true of all G scale models.

Finally there is New Bright (gasp). Certainly priced right, but obviously toy grade. Maybe with some paint and added weight - or is that just putting lipstick on a pig.

I’m hoping that those who have tried the available 4-4-0’s (or others I don’t know about) would share their experiences. I’m not looking for a workhorse or something to pull a lot of cars. More something to just run once and a while on my outdoor track. And obviously something that is moderately priced if that is possible.

Thanks,
Craig

There is also the Playmobil offering, sadly not in production any more but often seen around. Price wise likely affordable if you can find one, loco unpowered but driven by a tender drive. Look for ‘Steaming Mary’ here is a link to one currently on Ebay YK.

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[-bbbb]

Finally there is New Bright (gasp). Certainly priced right, but obviously toy grade. Maybe with some paint and added weight - or is that just putting lipstick on a pig.

Newbright may run on g-scale track, but the scale of the train is much smaller than G-scale. Don't expect to fit any G-scale figures on a newbright train.

I like the playmobil Steaming Mary. Although you may think it's toy grade upon hearing the name, it is far higher quality than newbright, and playmobil trains were designed with the aid of LGB and even came with LGB track.

If you want a cheap toy grade train which is actually the right scale, you can try the 4-6-0's by scientific, eztec, or echo. The ones with the batteries in the tender look much better than the ones with the batteries in the loco, because the ones with tender batteries typically have room in the loco cabin for figures.

There is a thread regarding scientific trains and improving them here: https://www.gscalecentral.net/threads/scientific-train-using-playmobil-rc-car-system.314857/

 

[Rhinochugger]

The Bachmann 4-4-0 can be got hold of at a reasonable price occasionally, but this, and the early 2-6-0 had weak drive gears which will last if not abused.

Part of the problem is that people don't realise that a loco that is stuttering due to bad track contact is putting strain on the drive train. it doesn't matter in the smaller gauges, but it certainly does in G Scale.

I bought a Bachmann basket case which had almost everything wrong with it apart from the gearbox, and happily run it on occasions - as you say, with a short train

Struggling to find a picture right now

 

[Fred2179G]

I know several manufacturers have made 4-4-0’s.

Well, yes, but they aren't all to the same scale. As you may be familiar with the Ertl/AMT "General", let me point out it has large driving wheels and a small boiler.
The General, AMT/ERTL 8124 (1992)
It is a model of a standard gauge 4-4-0, as are the LGB 'Golden Spike' pair. Standard gauge locos can be modeled in all sorts of obscure scales - I think I read the LGBs were 1/29th? The Aster 'Reno' is 1/26th? The Ertl 'General' is 1/25th? Heaven only knows what scale the 'Steaming Mary' and the other toys are?

Bachmann (and Accucraft) made scale models of narrow gauge (3') locos in 1:20.3 scale. They have smaller driving wheels to fit under the boiler. The Bachmann Spectrum 2-6-0 is essentially similar to the 4-4-0 and (I think) could easily be converted to a 4-4-0, though I haven't tried it yet.

like the General from the Civil War Great Locomotive Chase fame.

So if that is your target, look for a loco with the boiler slung between a pair of big driving wheels!

 

[Greg Elmassian]

You can find the Occre 1:32 kit, but it's a lot of work to complete, find on ebay... remember it is a kit

 

[seigezapf]

Thank you all for your responses and information, just what I was hoping for.

I had not heard of Playmobil. The Ebay source of the Steaming Mary you linked in the UK, dunnyrail, looked to be a reasonable offering. I looked on EBay in the US and found locomotives for $400-$600 each, and train sets for $1200 to over $2000. That seems pretty steep for a “toy.” I suppose when something is no longer made it justifies a cost increase, but I don’t think those locomotives and sets cost nearly that much when new.

Thanks for the videos and link bbbb. Looks like a really fun train with tons of accessories. The depot was even Colorado Springs where I live. The smoke test was very impressive. I can see why maybe there was no smoke on the indoor video. Maybe a Steaming Mary in my price range will show up I will keep checking.

Rhinochugger, I do have a Bachmann 2-6-0 which runs fine so far. I have replaced gears in a Bachmann locomotive - I think the 2-8-0, but it was a while ago. Good reason to keep the track clean.

Yep Fred2179G the relative wheel size is one thing that stood out when comparing photos of the various models. The LGB and Delton models have the larger wheels and smaller boiler. The Kalamazoo, Hartland, and Bachmann models have the smaller wheels and larger boiler. The New Bright locomotive and Playmobil are somewhere in the middle.

LGB



Delton



Kalamazoo



Hartland



Bachmann



New Bright




Playmobil



The actual General ran on a 5ft track common in the South (later reduced 3 inches to confirm to the Northern standard). If I have it right, that would mean a 1/32 scale on G track.

Greg, that Occre is a beautiful model anfd I think even the correct scale. A static model right? Unfortunately building a kit like that is beyond my abilities. Even the AMT kit would be a challenge for me.

 

[seigezapf]

I also just noticed that the General's cylinders are positioned above the pilot wheels. That is the case with LGB, Delton, and Playmobil. The other models have the cylinders placed lower.

 

[dunnyrail]

Please remember seigezapf that no one is born with modelling skills, they are acquired over time with practice. A good start is to make a wagon body out of cardboard, you can use thinner card and household pins for detail. A cheepo new bright or such like can provide bogies or chassis for your efforts.

As for the 4-4-0’s, I have never seen the New Bright (NB) one before, if I had managed to get one it would have made a perfect starting point for the Cab Forward 4-4-0 that I have always fancied having a go at. The only thing that gripes me with the NB one is the cylinders connected to the rear drivers unlike all the other ones you show. But not being fully familiar with US prototypes I expect there will be one but likely a more modern variety.

 

[Fred2179G]

cylinders connected to the rear

That is NB at its worst. I don't know of any US prototypes like that.

And the Ertl/Amt "General" is just a plastic kit. If you made a car or plane from a kit, it will be quite familiar.

 

[seigezapf]

Thank you for the encouragement dunnyrail. I have actually done a bit of fabricating – typically using simple 3D printed parts, plasticard, and motorized chassis from other locomotives. Simple designs for sure.

Box cabs







Darjeeling-Himalayan Railroad loco and car. The loco is a modified Aristocraft 0-4-0.





Kits like the Occre, however, involve a lot more precision than I do very well. I have even failed with plastic kits, Fred2179G, except for very basic ones. Clumsy fingers and little patience are a bad combination.

In looking closer at the New Bright locomotive in the photo I linked, I see that the rod to the cylinder has disconnected. Here is a better view of a more intact locomotive. I agree Fred. I wondered about 3D fabricating a better main rod.



Craig

 

[-bbbb]

I had not heard of Playmobil. The Ebay source of the Steaming Mary you linked in the UK, dunnyrail, looked to be a reasonable offering. I looked on EBay in the US and found locomotives for $400-$600 each, and train sets for $1200 to over $2000. That seems pretty steep for a “toy.” I suppose when something is no longer made it justifies a cost increase, but I don’t think those locomotives and sets cost nearly that much when new.

The most expensive ones are the ones which are new in the box, which is expected for a toy which costed around $300-$400 new from playmobil around 30 years ago before playmobil stopped selling them. Used ones are cheaper. I think ebay has a lot of middle men sellers who inflate the price, and some determine their buy-it-now price or starting price by looking at what something was sold for previously by searching the item name without understanding or considering the details of what's included or it's condition. People see these prices and get a wrong idea of what it's worth, and end up over paying, driving the price up for everyone else. I've gotten mine for under $100 each. The smoke system in the video is not part of the stock Steaming Mary. Playmobil trains are easy to modify, so people often add lights, smoke systems, etc. where they may have originally been not included.
In the video description of this someone stated that they recently found two Steaming Mary's with 60 ft of LGB track for $50:

Though they were missing some parts.

Some of the missing parts suffer higher pricing, but there are a lot of 3d printing files available for missing parts
( eg.

PLAYMOBIL

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Playmobil - Dampfende Maria - Dach

Das Dach der Playmobil Steaming Mary.

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)

There is a comparison of some of the motor sounds of Playmobil vs. Bachmann vs. Scientific here which shows some Playmobil as better than some Bachmann:

 

[seigezapf]

Thanks for the YouTube links.

I would definitely pay $50, but it looks like those selling them have agreed to ask closer to $400-$600. Some sets near $2K are pre-owned.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Actually the Occre kits normally have a way to power them, but not a heavy duty drive train.

The finished model looks fantastic, but on the difficult side as you surmise.

You actually listed the pictures in pretty much order of accuracy, although the Bachmann should be at the bottom.

Greg