2 Steam Trams with Deltang Radio Control, My Loco Sound cards and LiPo Batteries.

dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
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Yes I have taken the plunge with LiPo batteries. Not without some trepidation I may add, reading the warnings is scary stuff.

ABOUT THE TRAMS.
These 2 little babies have IP Budget Chassis with Delrin Chains to get them to be 4 wheel drive. Here are pics of the beasties involved with the chassis shown below on the first one. The one below was a Garden Railway Specialists impulse purchase, scratch built by who knows who. I updated the chassis with the Delrin Chain.

But first the chaos on my Workbench before I had a little tidy up so that I could commence this project.
3D0C2E15-6B28-4234-ABCD-66F4B2A0796C.jpeg

E5D289A5-65A9-43AB-BD0C-60E60E5A70CA.jpeg

This one was built by a good now sadly departed friend of mine from Hemel. Roger Goodhall was his name and it was swopped out for some LGB Track as he built a small line for his granddaughter. Not sure if he put the Delrin Chain in on this one, but as with the other it is now fitted.
897ADA9F-E269-48DC-8452-95D246EE0684.jpeg



F527B7BB-6939-4188-A94F-FCE3D43C2C53.jpeg

PARTS I HAVE USED
I have sourced from Micron 1 x RX65c, plus the following for each loco:-
-Tx22v2 receiver
-2 x Nano-Tech 750mAh 35c 1S LiPo batteries
-Toggle Switch Charge Module,
-Molex 2mm to JST-XH ChargeLead,
-Molex 2mm Plug Lead and
-MLS Sound Card Steam.
Plus of course a charger 80w C607D AC/DC Multi-Type Charger.
I needed 2 Batteries as on their own a single LiPo will not have the minimum 6v required to drive the MLS card. There are ways I believe to step up the voltage but this requires some other sort of gizmo, more cost and less durance Of battery life. I also need to work out how to restrict the Motor Voltage to max out at the 4.8v of the IP Chassis.

BATTERIES
The batteries need to be paired and this has to be a specific way, Micron include a wiring diagram if you order 2 for your project. Reading the safety advice of these LiPo’s it makes complete sense to follow that advice. Here I show how the two have been connected up to a 3 pin plug so that Balanced Charging can be undertaken. Note that I have given each battery a number and taped them together with gaffa tape.
A6526C5E-6416-4D85-BFA8-48037D4CE79C.jpeg

I will not be charging these in the Loco, thus I will be making them removable for charging. Being a belt and braces sort of a guy I have had a Metal Ammunition Box kicking around for some time now, I had intended to donate it to one of those blokes with an old Army Jeep that we all love to see. Now it will have another role, storing the LiPo’s and for use to keep the Charger and Batteries in during Charging. Paranoid or what?
5113C6F2-7E2F-420A-9D1B-636DF0F9718D.jpeg

560B7637-C394-4758-9820-113C4AF6568A.jpeg

SETTING THE BASIC MOTOR UP
Wiring the basics was about as simple as things could be, the following show how I have stuffed all the gubbins in the Loco. The 2 long bits of heatshrink to the blue/yellow wires are to the motor, these have not been shrunk yet as I may need to do something with these like swopping them round to get my direction orientation correct, easier than reprogramming! I also think that I will need to cut into the Power Wires from the Battery to supply Lights (if I fit them) and to power the MLS. They are the Red and Black below from the Switch. This has an inline reset fuse included.
C9DC6070-34AD-4C0F-A96F-941F055700E0.jpeg

Below the Batteries are connected to this plug.
D7BB5AAD-2E2D-4986-BB66-D4A9C27667A6.jpeg


15AC4096-B45C-4F3B-A69F-58B14CB7A99C.jpeg

Next to the On/Off switch is the charging point should I ever be brave enough to charge up the batteries inside the loco. A little bitbof tidyingbup required in this area.
91BFDE92-8DA7-4F5C-87F5-C17804754F50.jpeg

5113C6F2-7E2F-420A-9D1B-636DF0F9718D.jpeg

GETTING IT WORKING
This could not have been simpler. The Switch has 3 wires, Red/Black/Orange. These 3 were connected to the matching colours on the Rx65 receiver and heat shrinked. 2 x Yellow wires from the receiver wired to the Motor with heat shrink to keep secure till properly sealed in. This was all wired up as shown on the Micron sheet included with my 2 batteries. I then followed the binding instructions in the Tx22 Transmitter Manual. Switched things on and lo and behold the little Steam Tram swung into life, a little test run of her purring down the line proved that this part of the project was a success. With just ine minor correction being required so that when I turn the knob right the loco goes to the right. A simple fix allowed for by not yet soldering the motor wires.

NEXT
I need to now get to grips with fitting the Sound Card, for this I have sourced a Rail Exclusive SP18/13/13 Boomer bass reflex speakers, one for each Loco. Will be interesting to see how these perform in the Garden. Programming the Reciever is a little like Witch Craft to me, but re-reading the Instructions (many times) looking at Rik’s YT Vids helps a lot and downloading the Deltang Tables is another starter for 10. The Tables can be a little bit daunting at first but if you watch Rik’s Vid linked below with the Tables beside you, clarity with a little patience starts to kick in. Well it did with me!

 
JimmyB

JimmyB

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Jon, recognise the Micron charging point, I use 3S, and once I managed to get my head around the principle, using 2/3/4S LiPo batteries and charging in-situ is easy and safe (IMHO).
 
Fred2179G

Fred2179G

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2 Steam Trams with Deltang Radio Control, My Loco Sound cards and LiPo Batteries.
I have 1 steam tram with a viper ESC, Orange DSM2 receiver, MyLocoSound card and 4x 18650 batteries. I had to put some diodes in front of the batteries to drop the voltage - the Viper doesn't like 16V when they are fully charged.
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
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St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
I have 1 steam tram with a viper ESC, Orange DSM2 receiver, MyLocoSound card and 4x 18650 batteries. I had to put some diodes in front of the batteries to drop the voltage - the Viper doesn't like 16V when they are fully charged.
Interesting, in most of my other set ups I am using Fosworks with varying battery sizes and the Viper has no issues. Perhaps the Fosworks kit is regulating the output so that the Viper is a happy bunny.

Not posted for a day or three on this, still struggling to get my head around Deltang. Have had some help from both Micron and our very own Rik and think that I may be getting into gear with it. But that thought may go when I actually try some reprogramming!
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
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Interesting, in most of my other set ups I am using Fosworks with varying battery sizes and the Viper has no issues. Perhaps the Fosworks kit is regulating the output so that the Viper is a happy bunny.
There is more than one model of 'Viper' ESC..

A fully-charged Lipo can reach 4.3V so four can give 17.2V.

There is a BEC output from the ESC, which can be used to power the receiver. - Same lead as used to get control from the Rx into the ESC. This tends to be 4.8-5.0 Volts.
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
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There is more than one model of 'Viper' ESC..

A fully-charged Lipo can reach 4.3V so four can give 17.2V.

There is a BEC output from the ESC, which can be used to power the receiver. - Same lead as used to get control from the Rx into the ESC. This tends to be 4.8-5.0 Volts.
Oh like a bit of thread drift. Getting my snakes mixed up! Have a Viper ESC-124, Electron ESC-100 (not a snake) Cobra ESC-160 and a 165. Not noted which locs those 2 are in. Must take more care of recording what goes in what in the future, but all would be apparent if I open things up.
 
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dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
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St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Jon, recognise the Micron charging point, I use 3S, and once I managed to get my head around the principle, using 2/3/4S LiPo batteries and charging in-situ is easy and safe (IMHO).
Just a little idle surfing and found this Bat-Safe LiPo Battery Charging Safe Box, clearly the Aircraft boys take these issues quite seriously. Though I do understand that they have a different charging reign to us I.E. they need quick charge with probably quite high amps. But still I feel vindicated using my Amo Box for charging and storing my LiPos.


In other news on this job, I have now finally got to understand the varying Pads that are needed to get the sounds triggered on the MLS Card. So yesterday after soldering 2 new wires into the receiver and adding one resister to another pad wire I went or tried to went into Programming mode, yet another failure for me. Thereis something that I am not doing right so again long suffering Andy at Micron will be getting another call from me, just when I thought I had it all covered!
 
JimmyB

JimmyB

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In other news on this job, I have now finally got to understand the varying Pads that are needed to get the sounds triggered on the MLS Card. So yesterday after soldering 2 new wires into the receiver and adding one resister to another pad wire I went or tried to went into Programming mode, yet another failure for me. There is something that I am not doing right so again long suffering Andy at Micron will be getting another call from me, just when I thought I had it all covered!
I bought mine with wires attached (don't trust my soldering), and having connected the deltang to the MLS, use the remote, and quite successfully.
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
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St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
I bought mine with wires attached (don't trust my soldering), and having connected the deltang to the MLS, use the remote, and quite successfully.
Oh I get it to work ok, have even managed to get 1 sound out of it. Issue is programming to reduce to voltage to the motor and to get 3 more Sounds out of just 2 buttons. Have the changes that I need to do it is just doing them. Begining to think that Deltang Programming is seriously aligned with Witchcraft and as I am not a Warlock (well to the best of my knowledge) I am struggling.
 
JimmyB

JimmyB

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Jon, manage to get 4 sound out of mine, I assume it depends which Tx you are using.
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
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You should be able to get all the triggers you need, without any programming. - But you would need to use the Rx as a centre-off controller. That gives you both directions of the toggle switch as triggers..
 
ge_rik

ge_rik

British narrow gauge (esp. Southwold and W&LLR)
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www.riksrailway.blogspot.com
Sounds like you're making good progress, Jon. Like Jimmy, I charge all my lipo/ li-ions in the loco. The only time (so far- nearly 10 years now), I've had a thermal runaway was when I accidentally shorted a cell when soldering together a pack. It got a bit hot, vented some gases for about a minute and then stopped. A bit disappointing really considering all the horror stories.

Rik
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
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St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
You should be able to get all the triggers you need, without any programming. - But you would need to use the Rx as a centre-off controller. That gives you both directions of the toggle switch as triggers..
I am going to get 3 triggers from the toggle switch and the other from the binding button, all the programming codes for that being provided from Andy. Likely Jimmies set up came pre programmed.
Sounds like you're making good progress, Jon. Like Jimmy, I charge all my lipo/ li-ions in the loco. The only time (so far- nearly 10 years now), I've had a thermal runaway was when I accidentally shorted a cell when soldering together a pack. It got a bit hot, vented some gases for about a minute and then stopped. A bit disappointing really considering all the horror stories.

Rik
So I left things for a while then went back and read the instructions 10 times again. Issue was that I needed to set the Inertia knob to control channel 4, because this is on a different page in the instructions notes “2. set the Inertia knob to control channel 4 (described above)“. was missed every time, thus not putting me into programming mode even though I was slavishly following everything else! There is another way by typing morse code SOS but as I do not remember my morse that is an issue. Is it ‘dot dash dot‘ or ‘dash dot dash’?

So I have managed to get all of my programming done except voltage reduction. Andy will still be getting a call.

As for Jimmy and his soldering issues. Chock blocks can reduce these problems if you have space for them, but clearly sourcing the smallest ones that you can is a great help. To resolve these issues I did just that with the second Rx wondering if what the issue was was a faulty one, but when the other reacted the same due to my misunderstanding of instructions then something else was clearly wrong.......me!
 
JimmyB

JimmyB

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As for Jimmy and his soldering issues. Chock blocks can reduce these problems if you have space for them, but clearly sourcing the smallest ones that you can is a great help. To resolve these issues I did just that with the second Rx wondering if what the issue was was a faulty one, but when the other reacted the same due to my misunderstanding of instructions then something else was clearly wrong.......me!
My soldering is attaching the wires to the boards, I can manage in-line splices okay.
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
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Hi Jon,

S ...
O ---
S ...

Personally, i would not reduce the voltage (from the Rx65c) in programming. - Remember what we said about PWM voltage reduction?

I would use a little 'buck' voltage regulator, and set it to about 6V. between the battery supply and the Rx65c. - Full power to the sound card, obviously.
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
16,384
1,128
71
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
I finally managed to get sorted what I want with my Deltang and things are working exactly as I want them. As ever it was a lack of understanding of the instructions that kept on tricking me. One in particular of getting the Rx into proper Programing mode. It is all there in the instructions but not in a way that gelled with me. But never mind I hope that I will be able to put here some helpful knowledge in this post and encourage others that it is not actually Witchcraft to Program a Deltang receiver, but at times it felt like it.

WHAT I WANTED.
But first a preview of what I wanted from my system:-
1 reduced Max Voltage to the Motor, I am using a 4.8v IP chassis with 7.2 - 8.4 batteries.
2 4x sound functions with only 3 buttons available.

PROGRAMMING REQUIREMENTS
Andy at Deltang assured me this was possible and sent me the programming codes (highlighted bold) to achieve this on as follows:-

1 Reduced Voltage.
1,1,5,7,5 subsequently changed to 1,1,5,4,5

2 Sound Functions on the My Loco Sound (MLS) Card.
3,3,3,3,2 connected via Pad 3 Switch A (Up) less than 2 seconds press. MLS F4 Safety Valve. This link also” required a 4K7 or 4700 Ohm resister in line. This is due to these pads run at 3.3v whereas the MLS is 5v.

3,9,3,3,1 connected via Pad F1 Switch A (Up) more than 2 seconds press. MLS F5 Westinghouse.

3,10,3,3,4 connected via Pad F2 Switch B (Down) less than 2 seconds press. MLS F2 Bell.

A FEW HELPFUL POINTERS.
I found that the programming was a little on the ‘easy to get wrong’ side so created the following chart to help me get things right, I tick the varying changes as I go along so as not to get lost as it were.

5BD4F269-5B4A-4945-B64B-7B1C4C3C556C.jpeg


I also had a little problem initially with the Reduced Voltage side of things not realising that part of the light sequence means that no flash is 0, logical really but easy to get wrong. But I am getting a little ahead of myself here and a bit of knowledge about how to get the Programming is going to be a very useful help. So firstly I must say brew a nice cup of tea/coffee settle down with this and watch the following TY Vid from our very own Rik, it will help with much of the understanding of how the flashing lights are key to the Programming.


Enjoy that? Bet you loved the chocy bicy!

As Rik said down loading the Deltang Programming Charts and printing them off will be a great help in the future.

PROGRAMMING TIPS AND TRAPS.
So the principle is that you need to get into Programming Mode. Now my setup is very different to that shown by Rik, to recall I am using a Tx22v2 transmitter and a Rx65c receiver so these notes apply to that configuration. I will only give you the points where I went wrong and what to be looking for as I feel that the Instructions should be ok for most of you.

1 The Inertia button needs to be set for channel 4 as described in Page 2 at the bottom paragraph, most important this and something that I kept missing.

2 Now if you follow the Instructions on page 3 Method 1 you will indeed get into Programming mode, success is the RX LED flashing 1 pause 1 repeating.

If that failed did you get the LED rapid flashing on step 7? If you missed that then try again.

Now you need to get into the swing of updates as shown by Rik. On the Tx22 these are as follows:-
First set of flashes is the Level 1 Column on the Deltang Programming Tables. The number of flashes here reflects the Menu. Typically it may be just 1 flash. The process of passing through the various Levels is as follows.

Two Way Button labelled A up centre off B down.

A will select the action so if you were getting 1 flash and pressed the button up to A that would accept Menu 1 and move to Level 2.

B would allow you to process to the next Menu thus 1 flash as before, or scroll down the options before you accept B down then you get 2 flashes etc. when you have the correct selection required press A to accept then you will move on the next Level (column) in the list. As long as you have a chart similar to mine and tick off things as you go success should be yours. Good luck.

ALL IS DONE.
Here is a Vid of my Tram doing its thing with some pictures if the Steam Tram now fully fitted and functional required. Yes I got the phone the wrong way again!


pic below shows my 2 systems, the one below the ruler shown lashed up for testing and programming with Chocy strip.
4BE67238-7CCE-4BBD-8814-94ADF464DBB0.jpeg

pic below shows how everything has been stuffed in the side detail.
FFED07E1-B0F8-422A-9E74-3BFF5EC730D3.jpeg

pic below shows where the switch and charge socket is permanently in place, this switch has a Led that replicates the Led on the Rx Card, very useful.
09618816-CEC3-4770-89C4-F6D9400BABAA.jpeg

this pic shows how I have hidden the plug and resulting bodged holes.
1B0133A7-5FF3-490C-8AC9-1D7F6490DB82.jpeg

showing both the lids in place, the battery is easily removed from under the Coal load to do external charging, yes I know it should be safe but as I said earlier I am a belt and braces type of guy.
74413D55-DFEA-4537-AFC7-15B1793D6208.jpeg

side view if the beast in the workbench..
3A10DFA8-841B-42ED-990C-1725FC064667.jpeg

All I now need to do is replicate all of that with the other Steam Tram.

If anything that I have said is proved to be wrong in any way then I will attend to any changes within the body of this post noting what if anything has been revised.
 
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dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
16,384
1,128
71
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Hi Jon,

S ...
O ---
S ...

Personally, i would not reduce the voltage (from the Rx65c) in programming. - Remember what we said about PWM voltage reduction?

I would use a little 'buck' voltage regulator, and set it to about 6V. between the battery supply and the Rx65c. - Full power to the sound card, obviously.
Phil, many thanks yes forgot all of that so perhaps I should follow your suggestion, wonder how I go about that and what I need. Bearing in mind the limited space perhaps you could point me to a product or perhaps an array of Diodes may do the job as below?

A multimeter with a diode setting can be used to measure (the minimum of) a diode's forward voltage drop. A specific diode's VF depends on what semiconductor material it's made out of. Typically, a silicon diode will have a VF around 0.6-1V. A germanium-based diode might be lower, around 0.3V.

thus 2 or 3 silicone diodes may be what I need?
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
25,016
1,096
Tamworth, Staffs.
A multimeter with a diode setting can be used to measure (the minimum of) a diode's forward voltage drop. A specific diode's VF depends on what semiconductor material it's made out of. Typically, a silicon diode will have a VF around 0.6-1V. A germanium-based diode might be lower, around 0.3V.

thus 2 or 3 silicone diodes may be what I need?
The problems with a string of diodes are:
1. If in the battery supply, you only need one string.. If you put in the motor feed, you need to be a little more clever, as you will want to drive the motor forwards, and reverse. - You need a string of diode for each direction (not quite true, but)..
2. Although there will 'only' be 0.6V across each diode, the full current (if in the battery lead) the loco is taking will be running through each diode.
Example;
0.6V across diode, loco drawing 1 amp: Power dissipated by diode (volts x amps) 1 x 0.6 = 0.6W (600mWatts) this for each diode.
If the current-draw should increase to 2 amps: 2 x 0.6 - 1.2W (1200mWatts). Things will start to get warm.

The alternative, is a small regulator board, with an adjustable output. This would go between the battery-pack and the Receiver. - Full battery voltage would still be supplied to the sound card.


As an example..
PhilP.
 
ge_rik

ge_rik

British narrow gauge (esp. Southwold and W&LLR)
24 Oct 2009
9,759
365
Cheshire
www.riksrailway.blogspot.com
So glad you managed to get it sorted eventually, Jon. I know it seems complicated initially, but once you've done one, the next is a whole lot easier.

Rik
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
16,384
1,128
71
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
The problems with a string of diodes are:
1. If in the battery supply, you only need one string.. If you put in the motor feed, you need to be a little more clever, as you will want to drive the motor forwards, and reverse. - You need a string of diode for each direction (not quite true, but)..
2. Although there will 'only' be 0.6V across each diode, the full current (if in the battery lead) the loco is taking will be running through each diode.
Example;
0.6V across diode, loco drawing 1 amp: Power dissipated by diode (volts x amps) 1 x 0.6 = 0.6W (600mWatts) this for each diode.
If the current-draw should increase to 2 amps: 2 x 0.6 - 1.2W (1200mWatts). Things will start to get warm.

The alternative, is a small regulator board, with an adjustable output. This would go between the battery-pack and the Receiver. - Full battery voltage would still be supplied to the sound card.


As an example..
PhilP.
Ah never though about that issue, was thinking of what many of us did to reduce speed on the PM Diesel.
So glad you managed to get it sorted eventually, Jon. I know it seems complicated initially, but once you've done one, the next is a whole lot easier.

Rik
Thanks Rik, your Vids on YT have all been a big help with my journey.

I also today managed to get my other system updated as per the first one so it is all ready programmed, bound and ready to stuff into the other Steam Tram, will be a little more work fitting it all in but is quite doable. Thinking of a cradle for i side the boiler for the Deltang, Speaker and MLS Board. Then a side box for the switch. Battery should fit across the i side as the body is easily removable to get it out for charging, yes I know. Then I am awaiting the LGB Type buffers from Brandbright For both locomotives. Will give them both a little extra useful weight being whitemetal.
 
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