Workshop/shed build

Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

Retired Oik
27 Oct 2009
25,605
704
North West Norfolk
Many "Do-it-yourself" electricians who do not know, or follow "Code", learn the hard way, and either hurt/electrocute themselves, or others, and often burn down "The barn" or run afoul of inspectors, or insurance people. From what I'm reading, and observing, although well-meaning, and trying to save a bit of money; this poor soul is not knowing, or following code, and should seek help immediately...
....or does anyone follow any "Electrical Code" over there ? After watching the building at Paul's display railroad, by the restaurant owners; I start to wonder about the basic BUILDING codes over there in GB....EGADS, seems that there aren't any, or North America is on another planet....but what do I know...:(
That kitchen extension at Rothley would have been required to pass Building Regs and would have been inspected either by a local authority or a registered Building Inspection Company. Building Regs aren't worried if you are a messy worker, but HSE usually are - except they are too busy on far bigger projects.

As for a shed, they generally do not need planning or building regs approvals so, as long as there is a separate MCB in the CCU in the house, and an RCD at the entry point to the shed, you're covered. What goes on inside the shed stays in the shed :devil::devil:

My shed wiring is in accordance with Part P only because I had a sparky on site at the time (doing the house extension) to supervise my work, but the electrical test only went to the RCD :nod::nod:
 
Madman

Madman

Registered
25 Oct 2009
13,190
237
Pennsylvania, USA
I do hope Rik doesn't take too much offense at our critique of his wiring. As long as it works for him, that's what counts.
 
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GAP

GAP

G Scale trains, Lawn Bowls.
14 Jun 2011
2,476
40
65
Bundaberg Queensland, Australia
In Aust it is illegal to do any electrical work yourself, you must use a licenced electrician.
Heavy penalties (manslaughter charges if someone dies from an electrical fault caused by your work) plus loss of house insurance applies if you DIY and something happens. Not worth the risk.
 
P

Paul M

Registered
25 Oct 2016
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Royston
In Aust it is illegal to do any electrical work yourself, you must use a licenced electrician.
Heavy penalties (manslaughter charges if someone dies from an electrical fault caused by your work) plus loss of house insurance applies if you DIY and something happens. Not worth the risk.
Our rules are a bit wishy-washy, you cannot do any changes without it being tested, unless it's a minor change. Unfortunately no one is actually too sure what minor means. An electrician will think about new socket is minor, but a civvy and jobsworth might think that's major
 
ge_rik

ge_rik

British narrow gauge (esp. Southwold and W&LLR)
24 Oct 2009
9,651
220
Cheshire
www.riksrailway.blogspot.com
I do hope Rik doesn't take too much offense at our critique of his wiring. As long as it works for him, that's what counts.
Thanks Dan
I'm getting somewhat used to it. When I first started using lithium ion batteries, several contributors to this forum predicted doom and disaster, including some who confidently told me that my models would probably explode when left in sunlight and others who insisted I must charge them in fireproof bags. I listened and then either took on board or ignored the ideas expressed. I've learnt that there is always someone who believes they know better which is sometimes true but just as often isn't. I've also learnt that are always some people on forums who need to improve their communication skills.

The impression which seems to have been gained is that I am slapdash, cavalier and devil-may-care. Far from it. I have carefully planned all stages of this build, including the electrics. The spur from the house electrical system complies with relevant requirements - it was installed professionally several years ago by a qualified electrician to feed the stream pump and a couple of outdoor sockets. In addition, I have followed IEE guidance on the circuits in the workshop .......

https://electrical.theiet.org/media/1695/electrical-installations-outdoors-a-supply-to-a-detached-outbuilding.pdf

...... in fact I have exceeded them because I have included additional RCD protection on the feed into the workshop from the spur. You'll note there is nothing in the guidance about where and how the cabling should be fixed. I considered various options but in the end decided to run the cabling under the cladding, which seems to be the main issue raised on here. I followed accepted practice of running the cables horizontally and vertically though I now realise I needed to be more precise when fixing them which means I will have to widen the no-go areas around each run. As a result of discussions on here, I am now thinking about putting the cables into trunking so there will be no doubt about their location and it will be easier to access when I inevitably decide to change the position of sockets or add a new one.

So, I thank people for their suggestions but do ask that some think carefully about how they phrase them.

Rik
 
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PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
23,888
621
Tamworth, Staffs.
Rik, if you are considering 'trunking', then think about the waist-height (above worktop level) so-called dado trunking..

This is a larger rectangular section, into which the sockets can be mounted. The wiring runs inside, and there are normally two or three compartments, so non-mains services can also be run, safely segregated form the mains wiring.

Easy to add to, in the future, and also to move things about.

PhilP.
 
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ge_rik

ge_rik

British narrow gauge (esp. Southwold and W&LLR)
24 Oct 2009
9,651
220
Cheshire
www.riksrailway.blogspot.com
Rik, if you are considering 'trunking', then think about the waist-height (above worktop level) so-called dado trunking..

This is a larger rectangular section, into which the sockets can be mounted. The wiring runs inside, and there are normally two or three compartments, so non-mains services can also be run, safely segregated form the mains wiring.

Easy to add to, in the future, and also to move things about.

PhilP.
Thanks Phil
I'll certainly consider that as an option. A lot depends on cost as I'm running low on funds at present. I'll weigh up the relative costs of each and then decide.

Rik
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
23,888
621
Tamworth, Staffs.
A lot depends on cost as I'm running low on funds at present.
Ah! Always take's longer, and cost's more! :(

Plastic conduit, is a cheaper 'surface' option, and dead-easy, compared with metal..
 
ge_rik

ge_rik

British narrow gauge (esp. Southwold and W&LLR)
24 Oct 2009
9,651
220
Cheshire
www.riksrailway.blogspot.com
Ah! Always take's longer, and cost's more! :(

Plastic conduit, is a cheaper 'surface' option, and dead-easy, compared with metal..
One of the factors I considered when deciding how to route the cabling was heat dissipation. When cables are enclosed in plastic trunking, the max load they can handle is reduced. Though I'm not planning on running any single device greater than 1kw (ie a heater), I like to be cautious. I figured that laying the cables in contact with the insulation foil might actually help with heat dissipation. Does anyone have any views on that?

Rik
 
Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

Retired Oik
27 Oct 2009
25,605
704
North West Norfolk
One of the factors I considered when deciding how to route the cabling was heat dissipation. When cables are enclosed in plastic trunking, the max load they can handle is reduced. Though I'm not planning on running any single device greater than 1kw (ie a heater), I like to be cautious. I figured that laying the cables in contact with the insulation foil might actually help with heat dissipation. Does anyone have any views on that?

Rik
Strictly speaking, if you are using cables of the correct size (1.5mm2 for lighting and 2.5mm2 for 13 amp power) and they are wired as a ring, they should not be getting noticeably warm. A 1kw load shouldn't have any impact on 2.5mm2 cable.

The weak points, and the areas which are theoretically tested on 5 yearly EIRs for non-domestic premises (and domestic premises which are rented out) are the screwed terminal connections, both in sockets and at the CCU (the latter being more important)

IEE regs allow for plastic conduit, and even the old oval plastic conduit (egatube) is still considered acceptable. Also, many installations used 'top hat' trunking where cables were fixed to blockwork walls and covered by a flat, flanged trunking which was then plastered over.

Given that you haven't squashed the cables between the insulation and the sterling board (OBS) I can't see that you have a problem. I think Dan's original fear was that they would be squashed.

The principal behind the ring main is that of diversity - the theory here being that you are unlikely to have six kettles and ten toasters on all at the same time. The ring main also relies on current being fed from both directions to any one point, again reducing the potential for overheating.

Going over a bit of old ground, there are nice little CCUs designed for garages that have an RCD and have two circuits, one for power and one for lighting - ideal for sheds and simple to wire.
 
P

Paul M

Registered
25 Oct 2016
3,439
317
56
Royston
2 RCDS? We all know which one would trip first don't we!
 
ge_rik

ge_rik

British narrow gauge (esp. Southwold and W&LLR)
24 Oct 2009
9,651
220
Cheshire
www.riksrailway.blogspot.com
Strictly speaking, if you are using cables of the correct size (1.5mm2 for lighting and 2.5mm2 for 13 amp power) and they are wired as a ring, they should not be getting noticeably warm. A 1kw load shouldn't have any impact on 2.5mm2 cable.

The weak points, and the areas which are theoretically tested on 5 yearly EIRs for non-domestic premises (and domestic premises which are rented out) are the screwed terminal connections, both in sockets and at the CCU (the latter being more important)

IEE regs allow for plastic conduit, and even the old oval plastic conduit (egatube) is still considered acceptable. Also, many installations used 'top hat' trunking where cables were fixed to blockwork walls and covered by a flat, flanged trunking which was then plastered over.

Given that you haven't squashed the cables between the insulation and the sterling board (OBS) I can't see that you have a problem. I think Dan's original fear was that they would be squashed.

The principal behind the ring main is that of diversity - the theory here being that you are unlikely to have six kettles and ten toasters on all at the same time. The ring main also relies on current being fed from both directions to any one point, again reducing the potential for overheating.

Going over a bit of old ground, there are nice little CCUs designed for garages that have an RCD and have two circuits, one for power and one for lighting - ideal for sheds and simple to wire.
Thanks. Very helpful and reassuring.
Yes, 2.5mm twin and earth for the sockets and 1.5mm for the lighting. Using a CCU with a double pole RCD and a single pole MCB (rated 16A) for all circuits at the mo. When funds permit, I'll change this for one with two mcbs. I see they're quite reasonably priced on Amazon.

Rik
 
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F

Fred Mills

Registered
27 Mar 2017
1,501
132
77
Ottawa/Nepean, Ontario Canada
I guess the only last question has to be....WHERE IS THE BHEER FRIDGE.....????
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
15,245
560
71
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
I guess the only last question has to be....WHERE IS THE BHEER FRIDGE.....????
Hm that can lead to a serious lack of effective Modelling in some cases! Did have a Beer Fridge in my Loft at Hemel, found that every time a mate cane over it was emptied so it went in the end to a different guy that put it in his Shed. Well it was his refuge from SWMBO - not that I would accuse you of any of these things Rik.
 
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ge_rik

ge_rik

British narrow gauge (esp. Southwold and W&LLR)
24 Oct 2009
9,651
220
Cheshire
www.riksrailway.blogspot.com
Funny you should mention the fridge. We inherited a little worktop fridge when my mother in law died and we've been using it as a spare. I was thinking of suggesting it could go into the workshop as a frost prevention device for sub zero winter nights. I wouldn't want my paints and glues freezing up would I?

Would you be persuaded if you were my missus?

Rik
 
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ge_rik

ge_rik

British narrow gauge (esp. Southwold and W&LLR)
24 Oct 2009
9,651
220
Cheshire
www.riksrailway.blogspot.com
PS hmmm, thinking about it, on sub zero nights, presumably the fridge would cease to operate as the outside would be cooler than the inside of the fridge...... Might need another argument.
 
David1226

David1226

Registered
24 Oct 2009
3,854
1,905
69
Abingdon, Oxfordshire
I was told by the 'Hafix Man' to keep my Hafix's glue in the fridge?
Phil

Just as long as you don't get it mixed up with your Sticky Toffee Pudding. That would gum up your works.

David
 
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Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

Retired Oik
27 Oct 2009
25,605
704
North West Norfolk
Phil

Just as long as you don't get it mixed up with your Sticky Toffee Pudding. That would gum up your works.

David
Well, apparently not - many moons ago a dentist was fixing my front tooth with a bit of two-part filler, which needed a minute or two to go off. When he'd finished I suggested that perhaps he was using Araldite to which he replied, 'Oh no - the enzymes in your saliva would eat Araldite away in a couple of weeks.' o_Oo_O
 
ge_rik

ge_rik

British narrow gauge (esp. Southwold and W&LLR)
24 Oct 2009
9,651
220
Cheshire
www.riksrailway.blogspot.com
Apparently, this UV activated adhesive was developed from stuff used by dentists


Rik