What wheelbase for R2 track work

[WilsonBo]

Hi
I am a newbie to G scale but moderately experienced in HO. My aim is freelance British narrow gauge. l didn't like most ready to run items so thought I would try building a kit, which is working well except the instructions do not indicate where to attach the axle boxes. It is a 4 wheel carriage.
My railway will have nothing tighter than LGB R2 curves but I would like the axle boxes to be as far apart as possible, so my question is what wheelbase should I opt for?
Thanks.

 

[dunnyrail]

Hi
I am a newbie to G scale but moderately experienced in HO. My aim is freelance British narrow gauge. l didn't like most ready to run items so thought I would try building a kit, which is working well except the instructions do not indicate where to attach the axle boxes. It is a 4 wheel carriage.
My railway will have nothing tighter than LGB R2 curves but I would like the axle boxes to be as far apart as possible, so my question is what wheelbase should I opt for?
Thanks.

Are you intending to use LGB couplings or some other say Buffer with chain much like 16mm modellers do?

 

[WilsonBo]

Are you intending to use LGB couplings or some other say Buffer with chain much like 16mm modellers do?

Thanks

I am intending to use central buffer with chain, which as you say seems common for 16mm modellers. I am not intending to do shunting etc. but have been advised that even so chain is "not very good" and either chopper couplings or Kadee are the way to go.
I am also wondering how much weight I should add to the laser cut wooden kit to help it run smoothly and pass through the sprung LGB points.

Wilson

 

[dunnyrail]

Thanks

I am intending to use central buffer with chain, which as you say seems common for 16mm modellers. I am not intending to do shunting etc. but have been advised that even so chain is "not very good" and either chopper couplings or Kadee are the way to go.
I am also wondering how much weight I should add to the laser cut wooden kit to help it run smoothly and pass through the sprung LGB points.

Wilson

Sorry cant help with weight, most of my stock is RTR and never rely on sprung points with LGB except LGB stock with Metal Wheels. And that is on my Auto Railway as seen below.

 

[Paul M]

I use Hook and chain almost exclusively, I've never had any problems. It can be a bit tricky joining stock, but with a stiff bit of wire, I don't have much problem

 

[dunnyrail]

I use Hook and chain almost exclusively, I've never had any problems. It can be a bit tricky joining stock, but with a stiff bit of wire, I don't have much problem

Ah but running through LGB R1 reverse curve or even shunting over them?

 

[PhilP]

I use Hook and chain almost exclusively, I've never had any problems. It can be a bit tricky joining stock, but with a stiff bit of wire, I don't have much problem

I thought you said you used a 'hook and chain'?


PhilP

 

[Paul M]

Ah but running through LGB R1 reverse curve or even shunting over them?

OK you've got me, no, but some very tight point combinations in 32mm gauge

I thought you said you used a 'hook and chain'?


PhilP

Always one, there's always one

 

[ntpntpntp]

Can you tell us which kit it is, how long is the chassis.? Post photos maybe? Might help with advice regarding positioning the axleboxes to set the wheelbase.
Something to bear in mind is some LGB 4-wheel stock has the axles on pivots to help with running through tight curves. The two pivots are linked so that they self-centre.

 

[WilsonBo]

The kit is an IP Engineering freelance 3 compartment coach and it is 26cm long.

 

[dunnyrail]

As Mark says the LGB couplings have a swivelling wheel. But your coach is not that long in the scheme of things. May I suggest that you take a good look at some drawings of NG Coaches. Certainly too close to the ends would look odd as does too close in the middle. There is a sweet spot where things look just right and that is what to go for. With centre buffer and chain couplings you are unlikely to hit too many problems with overhang if you get that sweet spot right. This is after all how the real thing does things.

 

[Paul M]

As Mark says the LGB couplings have a swivelling wheel. But your coach is not that long in the scheme of things. May I suggest that you take a good look at some drawings of NG Coaches. Certainly too close to the ends would look odd as does too close in the middle. There is a sweet spot where things look just right and that is what to go for. With centre buffer and chain couplings you are unlikely to hit too many problems with overhang if you get that sweet spot right. This is after all how the real thing does things.

Or get some suitable bogies

 

[dunnyrail]

Or get some suitable bogies

Well that may work but then how far apart? Plus bogies would look very odd on such a short coach. Bit like the LGB shorty coaches on the short Brakevan chassis.

 

[PhilP]

To the Original Poster:
I think you may need to come at the problem from a different angle?

Think about what 'you' want your railway to represent..
Do you want a specific nationality?
Mainline (passenger, or freight)?
Branchline (country-station, mixed-goods, logging-line)?
(This can be difficult, when you are just starting out, but gives you something to aim at).

Once you have an idea, that will help determine what track you will need :
Larger-radius, sweeping curves for the mainline express. Minimum radius, for a tortured, twisting logging line. A rural branch line, in between.

This means you can concentrate on buying the right track, possibly selling-off, that which does not fit with your ideals?
You can also concentrate on buying (or building) the correct stock, and perhaps buildings, for your line.

A section of track that curves round a shrub. - It can end behind the shrub, and go on in your imagination..
A station building / halt / goods shed, perhaps a passing loop, or siding?

It can be a terminus, at the end of the line (to start with).
Then, when funds allow, you remove the buffer-stop, and extend the line..

So your empire grows!

Enjoy!
PhilP.

 

[JimmyB]

To the Original Poster:
I think you may need to come at the problem from a different angle?

Think about what 'you' want your railway to represent..
Do you want a specific nationality?
Mainline (passenger, or freight)?
Branchline (country-station, mixed-goods, logging-line)?
(This can be difficult, when you are just starting out, but gives you something to aim at).

Once you have an idea, that will help determine what track you will need :
Larger-radius, sweeping curves for the mainline express. Minimum radius, for a tortured, twisting logging line. A rural branch line, in between.

This means you can concentrate on buying the right track, possibly selling-off, that which does not fit with your ideals?
You can also concentrate on buying (or building) the correct stock, and perhaps buildings, for your line.

A section of track that curves round a shrub. - It can end behind the shrub, and go on in your imagination..
A station building / halt / goods shed, perhaps a passing loop, or siding?

It can be a terminus, at the end of the line (to start with).
Then, when funds allow, you remove the buffer-stop, and extend the line..

So your empire grows!

Enjoy!
PhilP.

However, if you are really limited on space you may have to choose your railway type (as above) on what track you can fit in. As has been said in this and many other threads, if you can fit in R3 curves this should be your minimum, that said, I have Aristocraft 3ft radius at one point, and have very few issue with my stock.

 

[maxi-model]

Given your area of interest, and region of residence, might I suggest a trip across the Thurrock (or Dartford, if you will) Thames crossing, round the M25 and up the A1M to Peteborough on June 25th Home - National Garden Railway Show might be in order ? You will probably find the answer to your question(s) there among the myriad of layout operators and specialist vendors on site. There is a risk though of leaving not just with a lot of ideas but a much reduced bank balance . You do not need to be a member to attend but I will lay odds you will have joined by the time you leave - that is if you are not a member already. Nice, long establish and friendly Association, which despite its name covers a very broad spectrum of this hobby in the garden and indoors. They have local area groups, so you can visit other lines, and get lots of sage advise and inspiration. Enjoy ! Max

 

[WilsonBo]

To the Original Poster:
I think you may need to come at the problem from a different angle?

Think about what 'you' want your railway to represent..
Do you want a specific nationality?
Mainline (passenger, or freight)?
Branchline (country-station, mixed-goods, logging-line)?
(This can be difficult, when you are just starting out, but gives you something to aim at).

Once you have an idea, that will help determine what track you will need :
Larger-radius, sweeping curves for the mainline express. Minimum radius, for a tortured, twisting logging line. A rural branch line, in between.

This means you can concentrate on buying the right track, possibly selling-off, that which does not fit with your ideals?
You can also concentrate on buying (or building) the correct stock, and perhaps buildings, for your line.

A section of track that curves round a shrub. - It can end behind the shrub, and go on in your imagination..
A station building / halt / goods shed, perhaps a passing loop, or siding?

It can be a terminus, at the end of the line (to start with).
Then, when funds allow, you remove the buffer-stop, and extend the line..

So your empire grows!

Enjoy!
PhilP.

Thank you

My aim is freelance British narrow gauge, probably at 16mm scale but on 45mm track. It is to amuse grandchildren and my wife, who will landscape around it and plant a few buildings. Space is limited so R2 curves are necessary in places, but with large radius points. The overall design is a figure of 8 but with a shared single line between the two loops.

I impulse bought a Mamod Boulton diesel with battery and r/c. A freelance 3 compartment coach kit seemed like a good starting point for rolling stock, so my initial question was simply seeking an appropriate wheelbase for R2 curves. I thought that would be a question with a fairly straightforward answer....

 

[dunnyrail]

Thank you

My aim is freelance British narrow gauge, probably at 16mm scale but on 45mm track. It is to amuse grandchildren and my wife, who will landscape around it and plant a few buildings. Space is limited so R2 curves are necessary in places, but with large radius points. The overall design is a figure of 8 but with a shared single line between the two loops.

I impulse bought a Mamod Boulton diesel with battery and r/c. A freelance 3 compartment coach kit seemed like a good starting point for rolling stock, so my initial question was simply seeking an appropriate wheelbase for R2 curves. I thought that would be a question with a fairly straightforward answer....

Ok sometimes things are never that simple, just the way of things. But a better answer may now be possible. I hope the pic below with ruler of a vehicle with solid axle boxes and a slightly longer length can help you now.
EDIT Oh and yes the vehicle happily trundles round both LGB R1 and R2 curves.

 

[maxi-model]

That looks like an Aristocraft chassis Jon. I use one for my general purpose "translator"/battery wagon. As you say the answer is more complex - The factors, as well as wheelbase, include buffer face to axle centre distance (i.e. how far will the buffers throw out in curves), is the centre buffer articulated and how long is its shank. One of the issues with using a dumb centre buffer with chain link is the risk of the narrow buffer faces locking while shunting or propelling stock over tight radius track geometry. Other coupling types offer greater control in these types of operation.

One way you can mitigate this is by creating transitional curves, say R2 opening out to R3, where possible, rather than fixed radii. You are already half way there by using larger radius points. It also brings in the possibility of using flexi track and don't discard the possibility of using Piko's curved (LGB R3 inner, R5 outer) point. That is a handy solution if you are working in a tight space with some "larger" stock. Max

A couple of pictures of a detail of my line to illustrate. You will see we have had similar ideas to layout. All the points are R5 and most of the curves are flexi track but there are some R5 and even R3 in there. See if you can spot the curved point.

 

[dunnyrail]

That looks like an Aristocraft chassis Jon. I use one for my general purpose "translator"/battery wagon. As you say the answer is more complex - The factors, as well as wheelbase, include buffer face to axle centre distance (i.e. how far will the buffer throw out in curves), is the centre buffer articulated and how long is its shank. One of the issues with using a dumb centre buffer with chain link is the risk of the narrow buffer faces locking while shunting or propelling stock over tight radius track geometry. Other coupling types offer greater control in these types of operation.

One way you can mitigate this is by creating transitional curves, say R2 opening out to R3, where possible, rather than fixed radii. You are already half way there by using larger radius points. It also brings in the possibility of using flexi track and don't discard the possibility of using Piko's curved (LGB R3 inner, R5 outer) point. That is a handy solution if you are working in a tight space with some "larger" stock. Max

That is indeed what it is, it proved the closest to what Wilson was asking, though my Bachman Chassis were also pretty close.