What Scale to Work in

dunnyrail

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Exactly my point.

What am I to do for my own models, you see the quandary I have ;-)

No their won't be 7mm scale trams in the garden, all my 7mm scale trams have been built using EM gauge track standards.

I am fairly confident I am fairly confident I know which trams I will be running, 1970's/80's Hong Kong (which started me looking at the scale issue because of the track gauge of 3'6", if I run this on 45mm gauge track the inaccuracy is 2.6mm), narrow gauge Ringhoffer (which could reasonable operate on 45mm track), standard gauge Ringhoffer (which needs an additional rail anyhow) and MER (which can operate on 45mm gauge track), quite possibly built in that order. When I put things like this I then wonder what I am worried about, just model everything in 1:22.5 scale and live with the compromise, so in 36 hours I have gone full circle yet again at got myself no further forward, and now I can't find the emoji I want, oh this is getting worse.

I will come to a decision at some point but the quandary continues, may be the answer is to follow pooh bears solution and sit with a jar of honey and think, think, think.


David

The other solution of course is to continue with Bachman G scale and let that act as a distraction, oh no I've made it worse and added another option to the question ;-)
Noting your interests I think I would be keeping to the 15mm scale for those things that match 3ft gauge MNR, MER etc and possibly use the ‘elastic ruler’ that LGB used to keep things pretty well the same to width and height. Not sure about your 5/8ths but that perhaps gives a good compromise for your interests. You could then once you have sufficient stock have Manx then other days running. Do not over complicate things for yourself by getting confused with scales etc to try to do all within a match. Just start building and buying and start to enjoy this fabulous scale.
 

DafyddElvy

1:22.5 Trams, NG Steam Railways
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Do not over complicate things for yourself by getting confused with scales etc to try to do all within a match. Just start building and buying and start to enjoy this fabulous scale.
Writing this and hoping my wife doesn't become inquisitive about my ideas and find out how many trams I have.

Just now I have seven different Bachmann/Liliput trams and one duplicate open which will be used as a trailer, yep, just 5 months and I already have 8 trams (don't think my wife has realised yet), their are only three more that I'm aware of in the range that I don't have, so I think it's safe to say I have made a comment to G gauge/1:22.5 scale.

Between finishing the tram conversion to battery operation, getting the fence shelf line built and building my new shed I can't see much happening on the scratch build front this year, but you never know.

Scratch building two replacement dashes has made me appreciate how much easier modelling in the larger scale is and satisfying that I can actually see the detail of what has been fabricated.

David
 
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Gavin Sowry

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27 Oct 2009
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To be fair, it's the buildings and scenic accessories that can be harder to deal with than the rolling stock.
Hence my logic for not fixing the structures permanently. Horses for courses, as the saying goes.
 

rentren

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Well, of course G is neither a scale, nor a gauge! 45mm track is a gauge. 15mm/ft or 16mm/ft is a scale. - Other gauges and scales are available, as is often quoted. G came from LGB’s ‘Big’ scale. But LGB, like other manufacturers have rubber rules to suit their own needs. Heaven knows what to make of my LGB New Orleans Streetcar which runs on 45mm track, when the real thing runs on a 5’ 2.5” gauge.

One has a number of choices, but all comes down to number 1 really.

1. Rule 8. It’s your railway, run what you like.

2. Decide on a scale and gauge and run what you like within that.

3. Decide to run what is only commercially available in your scale/gauge combination.

4. Start kit bashing or scratch building to suit your own needs.

5. Use the 8 foot or 10 foot rule - ‘if it looks ok to you from that distance, then. It’s OK.

I tend to do 5 and have a freelance British outline, fictitious railway. Loosely based on 15mm or 16mm /ft, running on 3’ (45mm) track. t suits me but would not suit others. I find that what are sold as ‘G’ scale building look too small with my rolling stock, so stick to 16mm/ft buildings.

But, you pays your money and takes your choice.
So, there's firstly no railroad ever been finished between Landeck (Tyrol, AT) and Scuol/Schuls (The Grisons, CH), and had it been built, it'd been 1000mm or meter-gauge, so very close to G scale's 45mm track width.
My fancy, Ramosch (down river from Scuol) to Landeck, AND Ramosch to Mals [DE] /Malles[IT] /Damal (Romansh) has magical track which accommodates both RhB 1000mm and Zillertalbahn Bosnian or 3ft gauge (914mm) rolling stock. Admittedly tho', when the RhB Ge 2/4 encounters the Austrian 2095 diesel at a bypass, it does look a wee odd to me. Where a similar encounter tho' in the station of Jenbach (E of Innsbruck) one could in deed observe Zillertal 3ft gauge, and Achensee RR meter-gauge flanking normal gauge main line of ÖBB.
There is clearly a difference in size of the original rolling stock but these different gauge RRs do encounter one another and for simplicity's sake as models they all use G-gauge track. Fair enough a compromise to keep things commercially viable. The LGB renderings of Austrian 2095 and Grisons' Ge 2/4 are reasonably compromises.
...oh, and we haven't touched 'era' yet. Well, for me it's simple, I run recent and historical enthusiast compositions and, of course, they do encounter one another For Real :) and most happily on L_andeck G_raubünden B_ahn.
And just in case, …rule 8.
 
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Eaglecliff

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It is with some diffidence that I venture to put in my two penn'orth, for what it might be worth. Am I the longest-serving/suffering, albeit intermittent, member of the railway modelling fraternity? In 1949, my father was a trainee teacher, specialising in Art and Craft. In the twelve-month crash course he built, amongst many other models, a gasworks. It was I suppose about three feet square, and as gas came from coal, it needed railway sidings. Which I remember. My father bought materials from a little local shop run by another ex-RAF type in Derby, Jack Merriman, including supposedly 00-gauge track with fibre sleepers, and wagon kits with mazak (?) bodies and printed card outer shells. At this stage I contented my five-year old self with sneaking out of my bedroom into the boxroom next door where Dad kept his bits and pieces which I would play with, very quietly, before putting them back and going back to bed. In 1954/5 Dad built me an 00-gauge layout on a 6' x 4' sheet of hardboard with a Triang loco - Princess Elizabeth? He built coaches from kits, caring nought for prototypical accuracy. A red coach behind a green loco - so what? He relied on John Ahern's modelmaker's bible and sold several models constructed from it, as well as for my layout. Unfortunately we then moved to a flat, and the railway, such as it was, had to go. And I started building Airfix two-bob kits of Spitfires, progressing eventually to Sunderlands. When my son came along, a spare bedroom beckoned, and another 00 layout appeared. Unfortunately, my son went his own way - on to wargames. But the Derby Museum decided to relocate its 1949-built (well, started but never finished) "Kirtley" O-gauge Midland Railway layout. That was K1. Volunteers were called for, and I persuaded my father to join, with me. He built the model of Bakewell station; I was in charge of the non-passenger carrying rolling stock. That led me to start my own 0 Midland layout in my roof. And boy, did I go overboard on absolute prototype accuracy. But eventually, the freezing winters up there, stifling summers and the availability of space in the garden persuaded my to join my wife there in her efforts to create order out of chaos (mainly due to the black labrador we had inherited). So an LGB starter set was bought in a closing-down sale, and the rest, as they say, is history. Away went rivet counting - but is that surprising? Bachmann Big Haulers - Spectrum - what scale is this? Why has this flat wagon got little wheels? Are these two locos the same scale? Aristo - that can't possibly be 1/29 - can it? And you know what? As I sit in the gazebo at the end of a busy day, watching a loco and couple of coaches go round, a glass of wine in my hand, do I care? Should I? Answers on a five-pound note... And Derby's "Museum of Making" has, as far as I am aware, now features K4, or 5. I haven't applied for a free ticket yet.
 
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Steve Manners

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I have been looking at scales, modelling not weight, and trying to make sense of what it is I want out of larger scale modelling.

If their is a way to confuse then the whole issue of modelling scales I think the Britain has won hands down, and just now I am referring to G Scale ish scales.

G Scale is not actually a scale, the Germans started the models with LGB and used the letter "G" I believe to denote garden model railways, so this is not actually a scale but more of a generalisation of model size for use in the garden; refer to the Tramway information references though and they call G Scale 1:22.5 on 45mm track which equates to 1012.5mm for which I haven't been able to find any prototype. Bachmann trams roughly use a scale of 13.5mm:ft which is not too far from Gauge 3 at 12.7mm or 1/2":ft scale.

Then their is the 16mm society's branch off group modelling the Isle of Man who actually work in 15mm:ft because it suits the 45mm gauge track which is readily available, makes sense but its a one off use of a scale so quite limiting.

If you have an interest in 16mm:ft scale modelling, the tramway fraternity actually work in 5/8":ft scale which is 15.875mm:ft which doesn't seem like a lot until you start scaling things, especially track gauge.

All of the above scale variants are used together by modellers primarily in the garden, but, if you are like me and are just starting out what scale should I follow. 1:22.5 scale has a following which is mainly r-t-r models, the Manx Northern Railway/Isle of Man Railway and Manx Electric Railway are of interest to me, obviously for the MNR IoM the most practical thing would be to model in 15mm:ft, but what about the MER, there is from my web searches zero trade support for trams in this scale; modelling the MER in the more common tramway scale of 5/8":ft means their would be some trade support but would also mean a 2.63mm compromise on track gauge.

So you can see my conundrum caused but a lack of joined up thinking by different people modelling aspects of different rail systems in the early days of rail transport modelling and not talking to each other. So watch this space to see what scale I end up following.

David
Hi David, I think you need to choose a scale that has some RTR or easy kit models for your particular interest to get started.
That might be trams, narrow gauge industrial, main line British, continental, USA, Canada etc.
There will usually be some accessories available ready made or in kit form, to go with the RTR stock. You can then scratch build or adapt stuff to add to your setup.
Part of the fun of it all is navigating the scale jungle!
My personal opinion is that track gauge in model form is the most elastic issue. If it looks somewhere near no one will bother if the trains / trams are moving and the scene is well set with people , buildings etc.
If you watch Youtube video of large scale layouts at shows or in gardens you will see that Gauge 1 British is like big OO scale, that is pretty accurate all round.
However if you go to the world of 16mm narrow gauge and G scale, while some layouts are consistent most are just for fun.
German locos haul British rolling stock past mixed German and British buildings and Thomas the tank engine and his mates appear with other Bachmann oddments.
If you want a consistent layout start by buying a small amount of quality rolling stock that is as close to what you want as you can find.
You seem to have researched the available IOM stuff fairly thoroughly, you just have to take the plunge now,
When I started in "large scale railway modelling" I bought all sorts of stuff new and second hand.
When I settled on 1/24 ish scale I realised some bargains would have to go like my Bachmann tram. It's too big and my layout needs double deck trams.
It's too nice to hack about so it will be sold on.
I will be building my double deckers on RC motor blocks anyway, as I want to phase out or minimise the use of track power.
I hope this helps and doesn't make you put off making your decision!
 

trammayo

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In the 12" to the 1' world, trams sometimes were regauged to run on another tramway system! There's a prototype for everything!
 
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Gavin Sowry

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In the 12" to the 1' world, trams sometimes were regauged to run on another tramway system! There's a prototype for everything!
Yes, in Dunedin NZ there was a 3'6" gauge isolated tramway along the ridgetops. When the original cars wore out, they regauged some from down on flat, which were 4'8" gauge (no ½") and sent them up to work the line. In real railway world we have over a hundred ex BR MkII cars trotting around the country on 1068mm gauge. South Australia had some locos that freely changed gauge as and where required, and that was three gauges, they kept spare bogies of all the gauges in stock.
 
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dunnyrail

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Then of course there was the Exeter car that was gauge converted from 3’6” to 2’ gauge and now runs at Seaton. Other cars appear to have had gauge recpvisions as well on this lovely line.

 
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HowardSue

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Gosh.
I must be different
We saw the first LGB started set in a toy store window on a visited to Germany and was hooked
On my birthday in 1987 my wife and family gave me a starter set with extra cars and track
Today it’s gotten out of hand with the Collection of “G” trains most of them LGB
I’m just happy to enjoy the hobby and the friendships in the garden railroad Community.
Scale I could care less I just enjoy running our trains both indoor and outdoor
 

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HowardSue

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More of my enjoyment
It’s a hobby not an Occupation
 

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trammayo

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I might just add that Leeds and Bradford had a service between the two cities. Bradford's gauge was 4ft and Leeds was Standard gauge. You just stayed on the same tram!
 

mike

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not sure what scale it is..I thinks it's
OK scale :) 20210529_173230.jpg
 
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dunnyrail

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I might just add that Leeds and Bradford had a service between the two cities. Bradford's gauge was 4ft and Leeds was Standard gauge. You just stayed on the same tram!
Yup they had slidey axle convertible Trams before the concept was even a dream in the Spaniards eyes.
 

rentren

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It is with some diffidence that I venture to put in my two penn'orth, for what it might be worth. Am I the longest-serving/suffering, albeit intermittent, member of the railway modelling fraternity? In 1949, my father was a trainee teacher, specialising in Art and Craft. In the twelve-month crash course he built, amongst many other models, a gasworks. It was I suppose about three feet square, and as gas came from coal, it needed railway sidings. Which I remember. My father bought materials from a little local shop run by another ex-RAF type in Derby, Jack Merriman, including supposedly 00-gauge track with fibre sleepers, and wagon kits with mazak (?) bodies and printed card outer shells. At this stage I contented my five-year old self with sneaking out of my bedroom into the boxroom next door where Dad kept his bits and pieces which I would play with, very quietly, before putting them back and going back to bed. In 1954/5 Dad built me an 00-gauge layout on a 6' x 4' sheet of hardboard with a Triang loco - Princess Elizabeth? He built coaches from kits, caring nought for prototypical accuracy. A red coach behind a green loco - so what? He relied on John Ahern's modelmaker's bible and sold several models constructed from it, as well as for my layout. Unfortunately we then moved to a flat, and the railway, such as it was, had to go. And I started building Airfix two-bob kits of Spitfires, progressing eventually to Sunderlands. When my son came along, a spare bedroom beckoned, and another 00 layout appeared. Unfortunately, my son went his own way - on to wargames. But the Derby Museum decided to relocate its 1949-built (well, started but never finished) "Kirtley" O-gauge Midland Railway layout. That was K1. Volunteers were called for, and I persuaded my father to join, with me. He built the model of Bakewell station; I was in charge of the non-passenger carrying rolling stock. That led me to start my own 0 Midland layout in my roof. And boy, did I go overboard on absolute prototype accuracy. But eventually, the freezing winters up there, stifling summers and the availability of space in the garden persuaded my to join my wife there in her efforts to create order out of chaos (mainly due to the black labrador we had inherited). So an LGB starter set was bought in a closing-down sale, and the rest, as they say, is history. Away went rivet counting - but is that surprising? Bachmann Big Haulers - Spectrum - what scale is this? Why has this flat wagon got little wheels? Are these two locos the same scale? Aristo - that can't possibly be 1/29 - can it? And you know what? As I sit in the gazebo at the end of a busy day, watching a loco and couple of coaches go round, a glass of wine in my hand, do I care? Should I? Answers on a five-pound note... And Derby's "Museum of Making" has, as far as I am aware, now features K4, or 5. I haven't applied for a free ticket yet.
All I can say is, cheers!
 

rentren

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I might just add that Leeds and Bradford had a service between the two cities. Bradford's gauge was 4ft and Leeds was Standard gauge. You just stayed on the same tram!
4ft = 1.2192m, standard gauge continental Europe 1,435m. "You just stayed on the same tram!" ... 8-]
 

Monty

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Changing gauges? Read all about it:

Very interesting article!

Poor old Oz is a bit left out in the diagram on page 18 however [which seems to be a Wiki hiccup], we have a multitude of gauges but have only dabbled in gauge changing.


cheers

Ian

Estimate of route kilometres of open heavy railways in Australia, September 2019 [not including sugar cane and other railways]
State or territoryNarrowStandardBroadDualOtherTotal
Queensland
8,146​
117​
36​
4​
8,303​
New South Wales
8​
7,128​
73​
1​
7,202​
Australian Capital Territory
6​
6​
Victoria
16​
1,912​
2,357​
32​
4,317​
Tasmania
611​
7​
618​
South Australia
184​
2,561​
253​
22​
3,020​
Northern Territory
3​
1,690​
1,693​
Western Australia
2,970​
4,558​
207​
7,735​
Total
11,930
17,972
2,683
297
12
32,894
 

Eaglecliff

Registered
19 Jul 2010
1,271
105
Derby, England
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Very interesting article!

Poor old Oz is a bit left out in the diagram on page 18 however [which seems to be a Wiki hiccup], we have a multitude of gauges but have only dabbled in gauge changing.


cheers

Ian

State or territoryNarrowStandardBroadDualOtherTotal
Estimate of route kilometres of open heavy railways in Australia, September 2019 [not including sugar cane and other railways]
Queensland
8,146​
117​
36​
4​
8,303​
New South Wales
8​
7,128​
73​
1​
7,202​
Australian Capital Territory
6​
6​
Victoria
16​
1,912​
2,357​
32​
4,317​
Tasmania
611​
7​
618​
South Australia
184​
2,561​
253​
22​
3,020​
Northern Territory
3​
1,690​
1,693​
Western Australia
2,970​
4,558​
207​
7,735​
Total
11,930
17,972
2,683
297
12
32,894
A customer-turned-correspondent is, or was, a volunteer on the Richi Pichi preserved narrow gauge railway. I must ask him if he still goes there.