To scale, or not to scale?

dunnyrail

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I was going to post a pic of a GRS Fairlie with e Newquid Swiss Type Van, but the height and width are pretty similar so no point, obviously GRS had been using the flexible ruler for some time on their kits as well!
 

maxi-model

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The coach looks like the old GRS resin 'kits' that were just a compartment and you glued several together to make a longer coach. The trucks look like Bachmann shorties, from the 20' freight wagons.

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The GRS modular coach kits were based on their L&B offerings. They were made of molded and vac formed styrene sidings that fitted to a styrene box that formed the basic coach structure. The OP states his coach is of wooden construction and you can see the vents are over the windows rather than the doors on the GRS kit moldings. I have built 3 of these GRS L&B coaches. Max
 

Paul M

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The L&B had a different loading gauge to the Ffestiniog. But when you say you bought the coach from the Ffestiniog, does it actually say a Ffestiniog coach?
 

Bolendo

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This is a great forum - so thanks for all the varied information. I appreciate it very much. I think I have my problem solved (for now). I forgot that I had bought a couple of Feldbahn coaches, which are dinky enough to fit behind the Double Fairlie. They do not look out of place. I also stumbled across some nice small wagons, which also fit the bill. So, for now, my wee loco has something to pull that doesn't tower over it and make it look small. It may upset the Ffestiniog people, or the modelling purists, but I can demonstrate the principles of the Double Fairlie design to my non railway friends, which is what I like to do. Thanks again for your support and comments.
 

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Bolendo

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Ah you've been caught out here! G as by LGB for NG prototypes can be anything from 1:19 to 1:22.5, and SG prototypes can be around 1:28 to 1:35. LGB's rubber ruler. think of OO and HO. Also nearly everything made by LGB is designed to run on R1 curves.

Also the loading gauge for a Fairlie is much smaller than the Saxon in real life. Does your Fairlie have a scale quoted as a ratio....
I believe it is 1:19. I am learning as I go along. Thanks.
 

Bolendo

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It is a Fairlie, named after designer Robert F Fairlie.

That is not a Festiniog carriage, and not even close to being one. Too short in length, too tall in height. Festiniog rolling stock is tiny compared to most other stuff.
My mistake. I looked back at my Ebay purchase history and it was simply advertised as a narrow gauge coach. I don't know where I got the Ffestiniog association from. My apologies.
 

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Bolendo

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The coach looks like the old GRS resin 'kits' that were just a compartment and you glued several together to make a longer coach. The trucks look like Bachmann shorties, from the 20' freight wagons.

View attachment 286427
Yes I think you are probably right. My coach does feel like it is a resin casting - not wood at all.
 

Bolendo

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Bob, I think one thing to be careful of is the term 'G Scale'. Really it would be better called G Gauge or maybe G Scales. As noted above G Scale for the most part indicates the use of 45mm G scale track - it seems to mostly exclude the finer scale Gauge 1 45mm gauge track and stock intended for that scale. As to the actual scales represented in G, you have between 1:32 and 1:19 (or maybe even 1:13.7 if you include the 7/8ths folks). So it really is a broad church. For the most part you can imagine that G scale stock will all ride on G scale track with some very tight curves - some larger engines won't get round R1 or R2, most I think will get round R3 and above.
1:19 scale British outline narrow gauge stuff on 45mm track is a bit of a rare beast. Mostly because at this scale 2 ft narrow gauge (which is most prevalent here) is better represented by 32mm gauge track. And at that point you are in with the 16mm or SM32 crowd. They however are mostly live steam or battery, certainly I've not come across any track power in that scale. Of course 0 Gauge which also uses 32mm gauge track does extensively use track power!
Personally I do use 1:19 on 45mm track, so I'm modelling what I like to call a narrow-ish Gauge. My stock shares a similar loading gauge and overall size and to me looks good run together.
Oddly two items I do have which always look a bit odd together are a pair of Brandbright 16mm scale Vale of Rheidol bogie coaches and an Accucraft 16mm scale Baguley Drewery Diesel - modelled on the one at the Vale of Rheidol Railway. The diesel being significantly taller than the coaches - which is indeed prototypical even if it doesn't look right (see the photograph here https://www.rheidolrailway.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/IMG_6018-1024x768.jpeg).
Confused?!! Well it is a bit of a mine field! Throughout the above, I've caveated almost (there I go again!) everything I've written, because there are exceptions to everything - it really comes down to what looks right to you. I think the best advise is to run whatever makes you happy.
It may be an interesting exercise to compare its dimensions to the prototype and see what sort of scale that gives you - and do the same with some other bits of your stock. As a simple starting point here's a link to the Roundhouse Double Fairlie (I think there stuff is all 16mm scale, but they don't quote it) with basic dimensions of the model in the specs "Dimensions (loading gauge): Length - 501mm over buffers, width 108mm, height 135mm" Roundhouse Engineering Co. Ltd. How does that compare to the Bachmann Brassworks model?
The double Fairlie looks lovely to me, I'd certainly be thrilled to own it (if it would get round my R2s) and it would fit in well on my line so I'll certainly take an interest if you do decide to move it on (that said these trick times are not the best for stock acquisition...!).
Hope you do enjoy your model, but if not I would imagine you'd be able to sell it on without much loss - it's not something I see for sale often.
This is a learning game for me. I appreciate your comments. I am now much happier with my purchase, now that I see it in the correct context. Many thanks again.
 

Bolendo

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A lesson? Yes..
But you obviously liked the loco, so do not be too quick to list it for sale.

If you came into a room, and spotted it on display, would it raise a smile?
Would you inwardly say "I like that"?

If so, sit on your hands for a short while, before deciding to part with it.
A prototype train can be quite short, so could be two or three vehicles. - You could have a short train, and it would look very fine, against the backdrop you have for your line.

We have all bought things that do not 'match', or we like the look of, but turn out to be not what we were expecting.
You can always alter the 'back story' of your line, to accommodate the stock you have.

PhilP
I have learned to love the loco. It now has a matching train to pull, albeit not of Welsh origin.
 

maxi-model

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Now all you need is one of the specialists who do loco liveries to doll it up in all its present day lined out finery rather than the plain as outshopped black it has arrived in. And you thought you had already paid a lot :D Clue, one of the posters on this thread is one of them - he did a nice repaint on my W&LLR "Joan".

Like you I started out in a bit of a scatter gun fashion. I bought what caught my eye - US outline, both std gauge and ng, European std and ng and UK/Colonial ng. Even a bit of freelance. In 5 different "scales". Just as long as it ran on 45 mm gauged LGB track. I have now settled down - it's either US 3ft gauge, D&RGW/logging prototypes in 15 mm scale or UK/Colonial in 16 mm. And I do like my stuff the be prototypically correct........well mostly.

You have one heck of a scenic backdrop for your line there. We will all be interested in how things develop. Keep the pictures coming. Max
 
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Bolendo

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Now all you need is one of the specialists who do loco liveries to doll it up in all its present day lined out finery rather than the plain as outshopped black it has arrived in. And you thought you had already paid a lot :D Clue, one of the posters on this thread is one of them - he did a nice repaint on my W&LLR "Joan".

Like you I started out in a bit of a scatter gun fashion. I bought what caught my eye - US outline, both std gauge and ng, European std and ng and UK/Colonial ng. Even a bit of freelance. In 5 different "scales". Just as long as it ran on 45 mm gauged LGB track. I have now settled down - it's either US 3ft gauge, D&RGW/logging prototypes in 15 mm scale or UK/Colonial in 16 mm. And I do like my stuff the be prototypically correct........well mostly.

You have one heck of a scenic backdrop for your line there. We will all be interested in how things develop. Keep the pictures coming. Max
Yes I would like to have it decked out in lined maroon. Perhaps the artist who can transform the machine could private message me if he reads this. Thanks for the compliments about the backdrop. I am really lucky to live here. Not a bad place to endure lockdown.
 

Paul M

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Your view certainly beats my fence panels.
 

dunnyrail

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Yes I think you are probably right. My coach does feel like it is a resin casting - not wood at all.
In the past I scratch built a Tralee and Dingle Coach mounting it on similar bogies to those on your coach (Bachman US ones?) and it did not look right at all. It was eventually mounted on different LGB Bogies as seen in post 11 on this thread, still not quite right and still a little high.


You may find a change of bogies with smaller wheels might be worthwhile to get the coach to better match the height of the Fairlie. There are sundry options on the market. These from IP may be a good bet, the wheels are certainly smaller. However make sure that you can get insulated wheels.

 

Paradise

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tac foley

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I have learned to love the loco. It now has a matching train to pull, albeit not of Welsh origin.

Maybe it's time to remind ourselves that much of what we do with our trains is a light-hearted affair, after all, it is mean to be a LEISURE activity, not a STRESS-inducing activity.

As for mix-and-match narrow gauge in Wales, remember than one of the most popular of all, the Welshpool and Llanfair, has rolling stock from Hungary, Austria AND Sierra Leone, and more to the point, operates on the distinctly un-Welsh 2ft 6in gauge. Locomotives, too, come from far afield - #14/85 actually came from Sierra Leone, 'Sir Drefaldwyn' from occupied Germany, and 'Joan' from someplace hot and humid. At the moment the line has on loan from Austria of one of their beautiful U1-class 0-6-2 tank locos, and its is right at home with a few of its own passenger cars in tow.

On the Welsh Highland ALL of the huge Beyer-Garratts came from the Republic of South Africa, and there is another similar but slightly smaller loco, also from South Africa via Switzerland, on the Vale of Rheidol line out of Aberystwyth. The K1 on the WHR is an original Beyer-Garratt that once operated in Tasmania. All of these locomotives are available as live-steam models, except that U1, made by LGB, is approximately 1/22.5 scale. Many moons ago Regner made it in live steam, but they are not only very rare, but VERY pricey if you ever manage to find one.
 

tac foley

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Yes I would like to have it decked out in lined maroon. Perhaps the artist who can transform the machine could private message me if he reads this. Thanks for the compliments about the backdrop. I am really lucky to live here. Not a bad place to endure lockdown.
To have it lined out by one our skilled liner-outers will cost a fair amount of money. but doing it yourself using appropriate decals, whilst not easy, gives a real sense of achievement. Tom Eivers, prop. of Endon Valley Decals, would be more than happy to oblige. And while you are at it, why not join the 16mm Association? The quarterly magazines and newsletters alone are worth the fee, and there is a special deal for noobs with a lot of extra information which, if you had to buy it [it IS sold separately] would cost almost as much as the annual fee. There is also a thriving FB page with many manufacturers, dealers and plain modellers posting - it is NOT public, BTW. But is IS international...even if you live in Scotland. ;)
 

Paradise

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Yes I would like to have it decked out in lined maroon. Perhaps the artist who can transform the machine could private message me if he reads this. Thanks for the compliments about the backdrop. I am really lucky to live here. Not a bad place to endure lockdown.

I need to paint mine too, probably in the same colour. I have a lining pen/compass from my art school days and might have a go at that. Dunno. I'm sure it is not easy to do. Probably over several sessions letting the paint dry between strategic efforts. I did however purchase some decals of the crest from Garden Railway Supplies.
 

tac foley

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I've asked around for you and got some idea of the price of a repaint and lining to suit. I have no idea what represents a good price to you, but it won't be cheap by any standards. If you can imagine around £400-500 or so, then you won't be far out. It will also take some time, as the lines of liners are long. Either of the two garden railway magazines will provide you with the business details of people willing and more than able to do a great job for you. Berry Hill Locomotive Works or Tony Willmore at Rhos Helyg would certainly oblige you, in return only for money.
 
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maxi-model

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With the current dearth of lining experts and high demand for their services in this hobby I am about to try my own experiment - waterslide lining transfers. Fox do a range of different widths, colours and corner radii that will suit my intended victim. Their transfers are printed, each line element separated, with the carrier film, printed design and laquer coat closely matched - no laborious and inevitably frustatingly inconsistent trimming required.

Subject - Darjeeling Class D, So, black lining superimposed on red and lettering from Endon. I'll see how it goes and if my handling and alignment skills are still up to scratch from my model racing car building days. If it don't look right I should be able to lift them with some strong adhesive tape, assuming I have not lacquerd them over for protection. I'll be interested to see how good the adhesive is on the Fox product. Max
 
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