ROCK ISLAND 4-6-2 Locomotive No. 1000

N

norman

Registered
1 Jan 2013
88
10
Hello,


I have been searching the Web and have been unable to find a Photo of the ROCK ISLAND Railroad 4-6-2 Locomotive No. 1000 .

Could someone direct myself to a link of

photographs and

hopefully to a Line Drawing of

ROCK ISLAND Railroad 4-6-2 Locomotive No. 1000 .


Thank you,

Norman
 
Scot Lawrence

Scot Lawrence

Registered
30 May 2018
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85
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Rochester, NY USA
Norman,
according to:


The Rock Island never had a Pacific with number 1000.
Just curious, what makes you think there should be one?
If its a model with that number, probably 90% of all model trains ever made have prototypically unnacurate paintschemes and road numbers. ;)

Scot
 
N

norman

Registered
1 Jan 2013
88
10
Hi Scot:

The BUDDY L locomotive,

according to this Internet Link

Buddy L Trains ,

was modeled of the ROCK ISLAND 4-6-2 Number 1000 .


"

In 1927, a complete line of model railroad equipment was started.

⅝ inch scale, and ran on two rail track that was 3¼" gauge

Overall, there were 14 different pieces of original Buddy L railroad equipment produced,

including a single #1000 Pacific type 4-6-2,

highly detailed non-powered locomotive and 8-wheeled tender,

faithfully copied after a Rock Island prototype.

This model is a reproduction of the big compound steam engines originally used in the fast freight service.

Fred Lundahl had previously worked for the Rock Island RR,

and the Locomotive shops were located at Silvis, Illinois, just a few scant miles from the Moline Pressed Steel Factory. The model featured sand domes, air tanks, whistle, brass bell, running boards, steps, headlight, knuckle couplers, cowcatcher, and brass rail trim. The locomotive included working side rods and valve gear that moved as the engine rolled along the track. Loco and tender measured 42 inches in length. It even had a hinged door on the firebox. All the trains were made of heavy gauge welded sheet steel and were equipped with die-cast AAR type working couplers.

"


I think Fred Lundahl Shrunk the Driver Diameter to reduce the BUDDY L Track Curve Diameter.

( Which was still 12 foot radius. )



I want to find out the Actual Correct Driver Diameter to

then have a BUDDY L Electric Motor Powered locomotive

stretched with the correct larger diameter drivers

for a Back & Forth Straight Track Operation.


Norman
 
P

Paul M

Registered
25 Oct 2016
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Royston
I thought that #1000 meant the number in the BuddyL catalogue, not the number of a specific protoype engine
 
FatherMcD

FatherMcD

Registered
13 Mar 2014
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25
Idaho
Norman, following the link, the paragraph describing the railroad models lists them with numbers in the low 1000's in the same format, lending credibility to Paul M's interpretation that #1000 is the Buddy L catalog number, not the prototype locomotive number. The captions of the rolling stock photos also have the same numbering format. Compared to the 938, the Buddy L drivers are clearly too small but the 938 info doesn't give the driver diameter. If you can't find the actual diameter elsewhere, your best bet may be to measure the ratio between the pilot truck wheels and the drivers in the 938 photo and then calculate what diameter the Buddy L drivers would need to be to match that ratio then stretch the frame and boiler to match. The domes on the Buddy L look to be too close together compared to the 938, suggesting that Fred Lundahl also shortened the boiler. The boiler diameter of the Buddy L might also be too small. Looks like you'll need to fabricate a frame and a longer, possibly larger diameter boiler, but most of the domes, etc, could be reused. Don't forget the oak tree stump in place of one of the tender truck springs. :)

This project should keep you busy for a while.

Regards,
Ken
 
Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

Retired Oik
27 Oct 2009
27,432
1,489
North West Norfolk
Hi Scot:

The BUDDY L locomotive,

according to this Internet Link

Buddy L Trains ,

was modeled of the ROCK ISLAND 4-6-2 Number 1000 .


"

In 1927, a complete line of model railroad equipment was started.

⅝ inch scale, and ran on two rail track that was 3¼" gauge

Overall, there were 14 different pieces of original Buddy L railroad equipment produced,

including a single #1000 Pacific type 4-6-2,

highly detailed non-powered locomotive and 8-wheeled tender,

faithfully copied after a Rock Island prototype.

This model is a reproduction of the big compound steam engines originally used in the fast freight service.

Fred Lundahl had previously worked for the Rock Island RR,

and the Locomotive shops were located at Silvis, Illinois, just a few scant miles from the Moline Pressed Steel Factory. The model featured sand domes, air tanks, whistle, brass bell, running boards, steps, headlight, knuckle couplers, cowcatcher, and brass rail trim. The locomotive included working side rods and valve gear that moved as the engine rolled along the track. Loco and tender measured 42 inches in length. It even had a hinged door on the firebox. All the trains were made of heavy gauge welded sheet steel and were equipped with die-cast AAR type working couplers.

"


I think Fred Lundahl Shrunk the Driver Diameter to reduce the BUDDY L Track Curve Diameter.

( Which was still 12 foot radius. )



I want to find out the Actual Correct Driver Diameter to

then have a BUDDY L Electric Motor Powered locomotive

stretched with the correct larger diameter drivers

for a Back & Forth Straight Track Operation.


Norman
Just thinking aloud, having read that Wiki page, does the #1000 refer to the model number rather than the loco running number?
 
Scot Lawrence

Scot Lawrence

Registered
30 May 2018
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Rochester, NY USA
Yep, I think everyone is right. The number 1000 is clearly the Buddy-L catalog number, and not the road number of the prototype locomotive.

The rolling stock consisted of open cars such as #1007 hoppers, #1005 gondolas and #1006 flats, as well as a 21 inch #1002 box car, #1003 tank car, #1004 stock car, #1008 side dumping ballast car, #1020 wrecking crane, #1021 clamshell dredge, #1022 pile driver and #1023 steam shovel. And of course a 19 inch #1001 red caboose.
And locomotive #1000

But we do have a clue to help determine which prototype class the model is based on!
The Prototype Rock Island pacifics had driver diameters between 69" and 74".
But the Buddy-L page says:

This model is a reproduction of the big compound steam engines originally used in the fast freight service.
In the USA, Pacifics were primarily designed and used as passenger locomotives, probably 90% or more.
Although "freight pacifics" were known, just much rarer.
And, a Pacific designed and used for freight would have smaller drivers..So, that 69" driver measurement is probably your number..

Scot
 
N

norman

Registered
1 Jan 2013
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10
Thank you all,

That was very helpful !

Norman
 
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Fred2179G

Fred2179G

Registered
20 Apr 2017
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big compound steam engines originally used in the fast freight service.
Not exactly a description of a pacific used for express passenger service? More like a Mallet.
 
Scot Lawrence

Scot Lawrence

Registered
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Rochester, NY USA
Not exactly a description of a pacific used for express passenger service? More like a Mallet.
No one ever said it's "a description of a pacific used for express passenger service" ;)

That description (big compound steam engines originally used in the fast freight service) is likely correct. It is referring to *one class* of Rock Island Pacifics, only. Not to the entire group of all Pacifics in general. (Which, as has been said, were primarily passenger locomotives, but a minority were designed and used as freight locomotives)

So, that description can absoulety apply to a Pacific..but one specific small class of Pacifics, for one railroad, that were used for freight.

Scot
 
Last edited:
Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

Retired Oik
27 Oct 2009
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North West Norfolk
Not exactly a description of a pacific used for express passenger service? More like a Mallet.
Pacific describes the wheel arrangement
Compound describes the cylinder arrangements

There are plenty of compound steam locos that are not articulated :nod::nod: although probably not 4-6-2s. The French used compound cylinders quite a lot, but seem to have jumped from 4-6-0 to 4-8-2, French and British 4-4-0s and 4-4-2s were also popular.

According to my friend Wiki, compound cylinder arrangements became less common once the loco designers got a handle on superheating the steam :nerd::nerd:
 
Fred2179G

Fred2179G

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Compound describes the cylinder arrangements
I think you'll find there are very few compound pacific types in the USA. They were fans of simplicity.
 
Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

Retired Oik
27 Oct 2009
27,432
1,489
North West Norfolk
I think you'll find there are very few compound pacific types in the USA. They were fans of simplicity.
You may well be right :nod: :nod:

The UK also suffered from space limitation - the UK loading gauge is significantly smaller than either Europe or US / Canada. Designers had to find ways of getting a bigger bang into a smaller space ;);)
 
N

norman

Registered
1 Jan 2013
88
10
Hi Guys,


WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY MATHEMATICS ???


The BUDDY L locomotive,

according to this Internet Link

Buddy L Trains ,

was

⅝ inch scale, and ran on two rail track that was 3¼" gauge .

AMERICAN STANDARD GAUGE Track is 4 Feet 8 1/2 Inch Wide.

⅝ inch scale = 5/8 inch to the Foot.

5/8 Inch / 12 Inch = 0.625 / 12 = 1 / 19.2 Scale

4 Feet 8 1/2 Inch = 56.5 inch


56.5 inch * 1 / 19.2 Scale = 2.94 Inch ( The Calculated BUDDY L Track Gauge )

But yet, the BUDDY L Track Gauge is 3.25 Inch . ???




Norman
 
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

Registered
8 Mar 2014
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San Diego
www.elmassian.com
The loco from your article surely does not look like the modern pacifics I am used to:

buddy8.jpg


picture of RI P33 #2625 below



For those who have not read the article: (note my emphasis)

In 1927, a complete line of model railroad equipment was started. The trains were big and heavy, fairly detailed, they were ⅝ inch scale, and ran on two rail track that was 3¼" gauge (three and a quarter inches between the 2 rails). The track had heavy rolled steel rails welded to steel ties. The rolling stock consisted of open cars such as #1007 hoppers, #1005 gondolas and #1006 flats, as well as a 21 inch #1002 box car, #1003 tank car, #1004 stock car, #1008 side dumping ballast car, #1020 wrecking crane, #1021 clamshell dredge, #1022 pile driver and #1023 steam shovel. And of course a 19 inch #1001 red caboose. Overall, there were 14 different pieces of original Buddy L railroad equipment produced, including a single #1000 Pacific type 4-6-2, highly detailed non-powered locomotive and 8-wheeled tender, faithfully copied after a Rock Island prototype. This model is a reproduction of the big compound steam engines originally used in the fast freight service. Fred Lundahl had previously worked for the Rock Island RR, and the Locomotive shops were located at Silvis, Illinois, just a few scant miles from the Moline Pressed Steel Factory. The model featured sand domes, air tanks, whistle, brass bell, running boards, steps, headlight, knuckle couplers, cowcatcher, and brass rail trim. The locomotive included working side rods and valve gear that moved as the engine rolled along the track. Loco and tender measured 42 inches in length. It even had a hinged door on the firebox. All the trains were made of heavy gauge welded sheet steel and were equipped with die-cast AAR type working couplers.


My comment is that the words "FAITHFULLY COPIED" must be taken with a few grains of salt. For 1927, this was highly detailed and to scale apparently. It's not highly detailed nor to scale by today's standard.

Norman, I'm not clear what you are getting at? If you are asking if in 1927 Buddy L made a faithful model, no, not by today's standard. If you are asking how they came up with the funny scale or gauge, I would say "who is John Gault" (interesting reference since Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged" does involve railroads).

Interesting to see where you are going with this. (by the way, some were 3 cylinder, but none were compounds from my limited research)

Greg
 
Scot Lawrence

Scot Lawrence

Registered
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Rochester, NY USA
Scot Lawrence

Scot Lawrence

Registered
30 May 2018
107
85
51
Rochester, NY USA
Hi Guys,

WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY MATHEMATICS ???
Your math is fine..
and the solution to the discrepency is simple: All kinds of model trains, in many scales, run on a gauge that doesnt precicely match the scale. ;)
It's been going on since the dawn of time, was very common in the O-scale and S-scale Tinplate world, and we still have a lot of it today: 1/29, On30, HOn30..

Scot