Massoth consist address

[littletone]

Hi all,

I know the answer is in the question, but Can anyone explain what CV 19 is for on an LS emotion decoder and what is the point if I have a Massoth Navi, which has consisting, which I understand.

Thanks,

Tony.

 

[muns]

Some digital systems allow consits to be addressed with a single address (the consit address) (i.e. Lenz).

The system can then issue one speed command to a single address (which would be processed by every decoder with that consit address) rather than issue a speed command for every loco id in that consit.

The LS manual states:

The Multiple Unit address (Consist address) (CV 19) is programmed​

automatically, if Lenz Digitalsystem multiple traction is called. In normal​

operation CV must be 19= 0. If the driving direction is to be reversed, a​

value of 128 must be added to CV 19

I do not believe that the Massoth DCC system currently supports "consit" addresses and thus is provided in the decoder for compatability with other systems (and the NMRA standard).

 

[littletone]

Thanks Muns, Now its all clear.

Tony.

 

[GrahamMills]

I must admit that have been tending to consider the Massoth system as the holy grail in Garden Railway DCC systems what with it's 12 amps etc. with an intent to purchase one when there was enough in the coffers.

However there was a limitation covered a month or so back, also I think to do with consists and this is another limitation.

How do you specify a consist then Munns? Just use the ID of one of the locos?

 

[muns]

Hi Graham,

With the Massoth Navigator you can create a "consit" that can contain 4 loco addresses, you would then select that consit and control it as normal. The Navigator will issue the speed/direction commands to each of the loco addresses defined in that consit.

However it is not possible to set one or more of the locos in the consit to operate in reverse to the others.

Hope that helps.

 

[GrahamMills]

With the Massoth Navigator you can create a "consist" that can contain 4 loco addresses, you would then select that consist and control it as normal. The Navigator will issue the speed/direction commands to each of the loco addresses defined in that consist.

I do not believe that the Massoth DCC system currently supports "consist" addresses

Now I am very confused. If the Massoth system does not support consist addresses then what address/ID does one use to select a consist?

However it is not possible to set one or more of the locos in the consist to operate in reverse to the others.

but presumably one can change the CV to always run that loco backwards?

 

[don9GLC]

With the Massoth Navigator you can create a "consist" that can contain 4 loco addresses, you would then select that consist and control it as normal. The Navigator will issue the speed/direction commands to each of the loco addresses defined in that consist.

I do not believe that the Massoth DCC system currently supports "consist" addresses

Now I am very confused. If the Massoth system does not support consist addresses then what address/ID does one use to select a consist?

However it is not possible to set one or more of the locos in the consist to operate in reverse to the others.

but presumably one can change the CV to always run that loco backwards?

I don't use consists in my operations but I have been surprised at the problems that have been raised concerning the Massoth system. So I have experimented a little with the Navigator.

When controlling a consist it is necessary to switch the Navigator from loco control to consist control, a simple menu selection. Then you need to select one consist from the up to 16 that you must pre-define. No need to remember individual loco addresses, they are retained in memory and the available consist addresses range from 1 to 16. I not able to complete this on my test track at the moment, only one chipped loco out of storage, but it seems quite straightforward though, as always, its a good idea to read the manual as you go

Since forwards in DCC means forwards with respect to the loco (unlike analog where it means in one direction along the track, regardless of loco orientation) you have to make sure that the locos are all set to the 'same' forwards, and as Graham suggested that probably means increasing CV29 by 1 for any locos that are 'pointing the wrong way'. Also Massoth require that the locos in a consist are set for the same number of speed steps and parallel operation.


I suspect that 'Rule 8' applies to DCC systems as well as complete layouts. It all depends what you want from it! The Massoth has the attraction of a high current and various extra features such as variable voltage. However, its not supported by many (if any) of the automation software packages and it does not have some of the current developments such as RailCom (decoder feedback etc.).


Here are the two sections from the Navigator manual that describe defining and control of a consist. Its much easier to follow with the hardware in your hand, and it even sort of starts to make sense, so once 'learned' I'm sure it will become intuitive.

Defining a consist

Controlling a consist (the reason it refers to 5.3.1 is that is the menu step before 5.3.2 = press one button to get to 5.3.2) [edited for clarity]

Hope this helps. It really does not seem all that difficult, so long as you follow the instructions. But if you need any further clarification just let me know and I'll try to get some other locos out of storage for a 'play'


Don

 

[muns]

With the Massoth Navigator you can create a "consist" that can contain 4 loco addresses, you would then select that consist and control it as normal. The Navigator will issue the speed/direction commands to each of the loco addresses defined in that consist.

I do not believe that the Massoth DCC system currently supports "consist" addresses

Now I am very confused. If the Massoth system does not support consist addresses then what address/ID does one use to select a consist?

However it is not possible to set one or more of the locos in the consist to operate in reverse to the others.

but presumably one can change the CV to always run that loco backwards?

Didnt mean to confuse you Graham.

Some decoders have a notion of a "consit" address [CV19] (which is different from the loco address [CV1 or CV17+18]) and that address is used with "consit" commands that are issued by the central station. This method is "Consit Control" and is an optional part of the NMRA DCC standard.

In order to use "Consit Control", your DCC system must support it. Massoth & MTS Central stations do not support this.

However, the Massoth Navigator allows for a "psudo consit" containing up to 4 locos and Don has described that in the previous post.

Hope that helps?

 

[GrahamMills]

Thanks Mark & Don. Less confused now.

I think that demonstrates why it is useful to see the kit that you are thinking of buying in action before you hand over the shekels, especially when we are into 4 figures of pounds.