Lead Weights for LGB 2018D Mogul Motor Blocks

[Greg Elmassian]

Smaller scales now use tungsten, but it's a bit too expensive for our scale. They make a tungsten "putty" that works very well.

In our scale the impact is that normally we are forced to put the weight higher, since we run out of room in the "original spot" if you are trying to get the same total weight.

I like keeping the center of gravity low, topheavy diesels tend to list to one side of the other, especially Aristo locos, due to the construction of the motor blocks.

Greg

 

[Paul2727]

Speaking of Superman - if only we could make our ballast weights out of DU (depleted uranium) think of the space savings! Although dead weight is something only you R/C guys usually worry about!.

At a density of 23 grams per Cubic centimetre. Osmium is almost twice the weight per volume as lead…

But before you all rush out to replace your loco weights with it, there’s a bit of a catch…

Unfortunately, when exposed to air, Osmium forms a rather nasty compound called Osmium tetroxide, which is toxic, highly volatile, water soluble, and really wants to kill you…

So probably not the greatest substitute…
Gotta love those heavy metals..!
Paul.

 

[GAP]

At a density of 23 grams per Cubic centimetre. Osmium is almost twice the weight per volume as lead…

But before you all rush out to replace your loco weights with it, there’s a bit of a catch…

Unfortunately, when exposed to air, Osmium forms a rather nasty compound called Osmium tetroxide, which is toxic, highly volatile, water soluble, and really wants to kill you…

So probably not the greatest substitute…
Gotta love those heavy metals..!
Paul.

Especially in bands

 

[phils2um]

Someone mention The Osmunds?

 

[LGB333]

What is surprising about this whole lead weight issue is that lead was chosen. I would think that they could have used brass seeing they probably had a lot of it around from the tracks they were making. Plus we would not have the issue of it flaking off to deal with.

ZMAN50 - Another option for coating the cleaned up lead weights from oxidation is GB Spray Liquid Tape Electrical. It puts a nice black rubber-type coating on them which also insulates the lead from electrical connectivity. You can get it various places like Amazon and auto supplies stores.

 

[GAP]

Someone mention The Osmunds?

Who are they???

 

[phils2um]

Who are they???

70s TV Bubblegum rock - Donnie and Marie, The Brady Bunch, Monkees, etc. Not exactly musics' highest point!

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Nor this thread's either!

 

[PhilP]

Different era, but quite like the Drifters..

Drifting, like this thread? - annoying, on a Smartie Phone, you can't see the thread title, without scrolling back to the top..

What should we be talking about?

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Was not complaining, but the thread actually had some good information in it once upon a time.

Greg

 

[zman50]

Yes, you should check them to see if they are oxidizing because the white particulars will get into the gear grease and start causing inordinate wear on the idler gears. These older LGB Moguls' gear grease should be check to determine if the gears should be re-greased.........old gear grease can also solidify sometimes which prevents the gears from proper lubrication. You should also re-oil the wheel axles and the driving rod joints.

LGB Moguls have three lead weights: a small one inside the motor block front and rear; and a huge weight inside the smoke box/boiler. You can determine if there's any oxidation from these lead weights by resting the Mogul upside down on something soft, such as two pillow pushed together, so the bell and gold whistle aren't damaged, and removing the four screws that hold the motor block's bottom cover on. The front long screw actually connects to the long neck of the smoker stack. You should first postion the wheels so the rear driving rod joint is at a perpendicular 90 degree angle - straight up. This is your reference point to maintain when you put the cover back on.........if the wheels gear pulls out of its position on the idler gear. Wheels gears not properly aligned into the idler gears can cause binding and potential damage to the gears, so if you have to readjust the wheels sets back into their positions, use the 90 angle setting as your refernce point.

It's not difficult to remove the two smaller weights form the motor block if they're oxidized and must be cleaned. But the large lead weight inside the boiler is more of a challenge. You actually must break the glue seal between the smoke box and boiler to remove the smoke box........there are two screws on the bottom of the boiler that hold the weight into position. Once they are removed, the lead weight must be pulled out from the front of the boiler. If you need to detach the smoke box from the boiler, let me know and I'll share my technique to do it without breaking anything.

Well I started digging in to the engine and the two smaller weights have heavy oxidation. The bigger boiler one has some oxidation. This is a challenging project for me as I have never tore apart so much. I hope I can get it all back together properly. Getting everything cleaned up while wearing a mask is not easy either. What would be good grease for the gears? Would vasoline work? Thanks

 

[zman50]

Zman50, about how old are you? Not meaning offense, but use of lead for inexpensive weight has been common for what, 100 years?

Only in recent history was it phased out.... lead has a bunch of nice attributes for paint, bullets, weights, etc.

Also, it blocks Superman's x-ray vision.

Everything Phil said is right on, and cost to manufacture per pound was one of the key features in trains, also the density makes the weight take less space.

The Zinc weights that Aristo changed to were 1/2 the weight of the original lead ones, for example.


Greg

Mid 60's The corrosion on these lead weights is terrible, there are small flakes in the gear grease, It is just sad that you have a nice looking engine and underneath is hiding this mess. I hope these lead weights are not in all engines.

 

[LGB333]

Well I started digging in to the engine and the two smaller weights have heavy oxidation. The bigger boiler one has some oxidation. This is a challenging project for me as I have never tore apart so much. I hope I can get it all back together properly. Getting everything cleaned up while wearing a mask is not easy either. What would be good grease for the gears? Would vasoline work? Thanks

After you remove the four screws that hold the smokebox/boil and cab onto the motor block, you then only have to remove the screws from the top cover of the motor block to access the motor, gears, and two lead weights. But to access the large lead weight inside the smokebox/boiler, you must break the old glue seal between the smokebox and boiler. I use a utility knief blade and small hammer placed into the grove along the brass ring that separates the smokebox from the boiler.......and continually tap around the grove until it breaks the glue seal. There are two screws in the bottom of the large lead weight that hold it in place.......and you pull it out the front of the boiler.

I soak overnight the lead weights in either cleaning vinigar or CLR solvent, then after washing them off and drying, I spray them with the GB Spray Liquid Tape Electrical to prevent future oxidation. Some of the lead the old LGB company used was inferior and prone to oxidation.

You're going to have to flush the motor block to clean out all that oxidation specks from the gears, sidewalls, etc. I had to do this recently with a customer's Mogul that also was a mess with lead oxidation specks all over the place, even on th outside of the Mogul. I use plastic safe CRC QD Electronic Cleaner with the small straw nossel to clean out the motor block. Wear gloves and don't break that lead oxidation stuff........wear a mask.......it's hazardous to us humans!

Use only gear grease suitable for LGB locomotive gears. I use and sell the Massoth 8319401 Gear Lubricant, 1.8 oz tube. I sell it for $12 plus $4.50 USPS First Class Package shipping.

You can email me directly if you need help reassemblying your Mogul........I can also send you some photo by email that show the position of things.
Tom White
Olddominionrailways@gmail.com

 

[JimmyB]

What would be good grease for the gears? Would vasoline work? Thanks

Do not use vasoline, which is a trade name for petroleum jelly, which as the name suggests contains petroleum which attacks plastics.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Zman, please get plastic-compatible oils and greases...

I've written a bit about this which may be helpful:

Lubrication

Greg Elmassian web site on large scale trains and garden railroads, cigars, and computers

elmassian.com

Greg

 

[zman50]

Zman, please get plastic-compatible oils and greases...

I've written a bit about this which may be helpful:

Lubrication

Greg Elmassian web site on large scale trains and garden railroads, cigars, and computers

elmassian.com

Greg

Thanks for the great info, read your article and will be buying some good lubricants from your suggestions.

 

[zman50]

After you remove the four screws that hold the smokebox/boil and cab onto the motor block, you then only have to remove the screws from the top cover of the motor block to access the motor, gears, and two lead weights. But to access the large lead weight inside the smokebox/boiler, you must break the old glue seal between the smokebox and boiler. I use a utility knief blade and small hammer placed into the grove along the brass ring that separates the smokebox from the boiler.......and continually tap around the grove until it breaks the glue seal. There are two screws in the bottom of the large lead weight that hold it in place.......and you pull it out the front of the boiler.

I soak overnight the lead weights in either cleaning vinigar or CLR solvent, then after washing them off and drying, I spray them with the GB Spray Liquid Tape Electrical to prevent future oxidation. Some of the lead the old LGB company used was inferior and prone to oxidation.

You're going to have to flush the motor block to clean out all that oxidation specks from the gears, sidewalls, etc. I had to do this recently with a customer's Mogul that also was a mess with lead oxidation specks all over the place, even on th outside of the Mogul. I use plastic safe CRC QD Electronic Cleaner with the small straw nossel to clean out the motor block. Wear gloves and don't break that lead oxidation stuff........wear a mask.......it's hazardous to us humans!

Use only gear grease suitable for LGB locomotive gears. I use and sell the Massoth 8319401 Gear Lubricant, 1.8 oz tube. I sell it for $12 plus $4.50 USPS First Class Package shipping.

You can email me directly if you need help reassemblying your Mogul........I can also send you some photo by email that show the position of things.
Tom White
Olddominionrailways@gmail.com

Thanks for the great information, will contact if I run into a problem.

 

[LGB333]

Thanks for the great info, read your article and will be buying some good lubricants from your suggestions.

zman50 - As I mentioned, I do have the Massoth 8319401 Gear Grease available for $12........email me if you want a tube. It's excellent quality and I use it on all my LGB locomotive repairs.

 

[LGB333]

Thanks for the great information, will contact if I run into a problem.

Well, I just tried to break the old glue seal between the smokebox and boiler on an LGB 2019S Mogul and couldn't get it to "pop". I was going to take the large lead weight out of the boiler and soak it in cleaning solvent, but there's only a small amount of lead oxidation on the bottom area of the weight. So I cleaned it off and then coated it with the liquid tape. The only way to separate the smokebox and boiler in this case would be to break off the smoke box and then it would have to be replaced.........I didn't want to have to do that. TrainLi.com has spare Mogul smoke boxes available for sale.

I've attached a photo of one of the Mogul motor blocks with the lead oxidation contaminating the gears that I had to flush clean to get rid of it.