Lead Weights for LGB 2018D Mogul Motor Blocks

[LGB333]

I'm installing an ESU LokSound 5 XL DCC Sound/Power Decoder into a friends LGB 2018D Mogul and discovered the two lead weights are missing. I assumed the original owner must have removed them until I consulted with Klaus Stork here in the USA who used to work for the original Erst Paul Lehmann Patentwerk as a technical adviser in Germany for many years. He told me that some of the original 2018Ds were manufactured during 1985 - 1987 without the weights. These weights obviously help with traction and stability and keeping the front leading wheel on the track, so I tried to find some used ones and my Massoth supplier in Germany even checked with Marklin for spares to buy.......no joy! So, my friend and I decided to manufacture our own replacement weights using molds and melted lead. I'm now selling them on eBay.com and my own Website if anyone needs a set. I sold a set yesterday to a person who needed them for the rebuild of his LGB 2019 Mogul's motor block which apparently didn't have them installed either. LGB installed weights into their follow-on Mogul models, so this issue applies primarily to the 2018D model.

As a side note, the LGB lead weights can start to develop corrosion which can flack off into the motor block and clog the gears, and this occurred with the used 2018D I'm working on. It was such a mess I had to completely clean out the motor block and even replace the idler gears. Then I've spray coated the new weights with Garder Bender Spray Liquid Tape, a rubber formula coating, to prevent any future corrosion in the motor block. If you operate your layout on the sea coast, you're probably more likely to get this lead corrosion. Just sharing some recent experiences with you.

 

[justme igor]

To counter the corrosion of lead, add some tin ~5%?
I have some lead "weights" that are sitting for years without any oxide(some incl antimony).
Could this be of any help?
Yes i am fully aware of the prices of tin bismuth and antimony

 

[zman50]

I discovered a 2018 weight in a tender of a 2119D engine. It had what looked like plaster on it and was flaking off. It was a odd shape and was screwed down to base of tender. Is this weight supposed to be there? What can I replace it with as I do not like the flaking off part of it. Thanks

 

[LGB333]

Hi Zman50 - The LGB Mogul Tenders are supposed to have a lead weight in them to add stability to the wheels on the track, especially for curves when the locomotive is pulling multiple trains cars after it. Unfortunately, I learned from a former LGB technical expert that used to work for the former LGB Company in Germany, Ernst Paul Lehmann Patentwerk, that some of the quality of the lead used was inferior quality. So they will have a tendency to oxidize..........not good for the operation of LGB locomotives, or in your case, the tender. And it's also not heathy to us human beings! When I encounter the lead oxidation issue, small flaks of white stuff, in a locomotive, I remove the lead weight(s) and soak them in cleaning vinigar over night to clean them off. Then I will spray them with GB (Gardner Bender) "Spray Liquid Tape Electrical". This gives them a protective coating to help prevent future oxidation.

 

[zman50]

Thanks for the information, the weight is now soaking in white vinegar and I can already see stuff coming off. Is there also a weight in the engine compartment that I need to worry about. It is a LGB 2119D engine. Thanks

 

[LGB333]

Thanks for the information, the weight is now soaking in white vinegar and I can already see stuff coming off. Is there also a weight in the engine compartment that I need to worry about. It is a LGB 2119D engine. Thanks

Yes, you should check them to see if they are oxidizing because the white particulars will get into the gear grease and start causing inordinate wear on the idler gears. These older LGB Moguls' gear grease should be check to determine if the gears should be re-greased.........old gear grease can also solidify sometimes which prevents the gears from proper lubrication. You should also re-oil the wheel axles and the driving rod joints.

LGB Moguls have three lead weights: a small one inside the motor block front and rear; and a huge weight inside the smoke box/boiler. You can determine if there's any oxidation from these lead weights by resting the Mogul upside down on something soft, such as two pillow pushed together, so the bell and gold whistle aren't damaged, and removing the four screws that hold the motor block's bottom cover on. The front long screw actually connects to the long neck of the smoker stack. You should first postion the wheels so the rear driving rod joint is at a perpendicular 90 degree angle - straight up. This is your reference point to maintain when you put the cover back on.........if the wheels gear pulls out of its position on the idler gear. Wheels gears not properly aligned into the idler gears can cause binding and potential damage to the gears, so if you have to readjust the wheels sets back into their positions, use the 90 angle setting as your refernce point.

It's not difficult to remove the two smaller weights form the motor block if they're oxidized and must be cleaned. But the large lead weight inside the boiler is more of a challenge. You actually must break the glue seal between the smoke box and boiler to remove the smoke box........there are two screws on the bottom of the boiler that hold the weight into position. Once they are removed, the lead weight must be pulled out from the front of the boiler. If you need to detach the smoke box from the boiler, let me know and I'll share my technique to do it without breaking anything.

 

[zman50]

Thanks for that information, I guess I have no choice but to dig into it and see what is going on inside of there.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

I coat my lead weights with an anti-corrosion spray, a marine variety that contains lanoline.

Greg

 

[zman50]

Thanks Greg for the information,it is much appreciated.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

I was concerned as many of my USA Trains locos had this issue, and I wanted to coat them with something that was plastic safe and non-toxic,

I use Lanocote, a lanoline-based spray (if you don't recognize lanoline, it is often in hand lotion, comes from sheep).

Greg

 

[GAP]

I was concerned as many of my USA Trains locos had this issue, and I wanted to coat them with something that was plastic safe and non-toxic,

I use Lanocote, a lanoline-based spray (if you don't recognize lanoline, it is often in hand lotion, comes from sheep).

Greg

As I mentioned in the other thread the Navy use it and Ardrox for corrosion prevention in the airframes and engines.

 

[zman50]

What is surprising about this whole lead weight issue is that lead was chosen. I would think that they could have used brass seeing they probably had a lot of it around from the tracks they were making. Plus we would not have the issue of it flaking off to deal with.

 

[PhilP]

What is surprising about this whole lead weight issue is that LGB chose lead to use in a child's toy. I would think that they could have used brass seeing they probably had a lot of it around from the tracks they were making. Plus we would not have the issue of it flaking off to deal with.

Lead was widely used in the past..

Even for drinking water pipework..

I guess LGB were initially thinking of the Drawing Rooms of Europe, rather than soggy gardens and damp sheds?

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Manufacturers now use zinc or steel. Yes, they used to use cocaine in Coke, and Radium in patent medicines.... and they even drove Yugos...

 

[phils2um]

What is surprising about this whole lead weight issue is that lead was chosen. I would think that they could have used brass seeing they probably had a lot of it around from the tracks they were making.

Lead is a whole lot cheaper than brass per pound. The low melting point of lead also makes parts manufacturing much less costly than dealing with other metals. It is easier to cast in complex shapes. Plus the high density makes a given amount of weight more compact and easier to hide or find space for. It's really too bad that manufacturers can't use it any more. It's also unfortunate a lead alloy less prone to corrosion wasn't more commonly used in the past. But again, it all comes down to cost.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Zman50, about how old are you? Not meaning offense, but use of lead for inexpensive weight has been common for what, 100 years?

Only in recent history was it phased out.... lead has a bunch of nice attributes for paint, bullets, weights, etc.

Also, it blocks Superman's x-ray vision.

Everything Phil said is right on, and cost to manufacture per pound was one of the key features in trains, also the density makes the weight take less space.

The Zinc weights that Aristo changed to were 1/2 the weight of the original lead ones, for example.


Greg

 

[trammayo]

Working with lead can be dangerous - I used barrier cream on my hands for a starter. Having worked at a Builder's Merchant for a number of years, we sold lead plumbing items, sheet lead, lead piping (gauge worked out in lbs weight!), composition lead (for gas piping in domestic situations), antimonial lead (chemical industry) and so on. And, as for anti-corrosion (on sheet lead for covering whole rooves), anti patination oil was the general product used. Lead products used in the paint industry were banned because children might get harmed for a starter. I have used lead myself and can wipe a pipe joint for plumbing or make a bell-mouth joint in compo or for waste pipes. Plus I know how to use sheet lead. I still have the odd tools like turnpins or a setting in stick, mallet and pipe clamps and the like.

 

[phils2um]

Speaking of Superman - if only we could make our ballast weights out of DU (depleted uranium) think of the space savings! Although dead weight is something only you R/C guys usually worry about!.

 

[Paul M]

Like asbestos, lead is brilliant at what it does, just a very unfortunate drawback

 

[JimmyB]

Like asbestos, lead is brilliant at what it does, just a very unfortunate drawback

I think that should be "Like asbestos, lead is brilliant at doing what we want it to do, just very unfortunate about the things we don't want it to do", though I understood and agree with your sentiment