Help problems with my Trainline Mallett an early Black one ref 2011002 not Zino Chip but DCC Sound

PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
22,507
174
Tamworth, Staffs.
Thanks Jon..

Is the magnet set-in-to / glued-on the collar of the gear?

I am used to the older models, where the magnet is a separate ring, you glue to the axle..

Thanks,
PhilP.
 
wandgrudd

wandgrudd

Registered
24 Oct 2009
279
11
....
Thanks Jon..

Is the magnet set-in-to / glued-on the collar of the gear?

I am used to the older models, where the magnet is a separate ring, you glue to the axle..

Thanks,
PhilP.
Phil i was thinking on the same lines but then noticed on the other pictures you can see the little magnets on the white gear.
 

Attachments

dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
14,455
203
71
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
14,455
203
71
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Phil i was thinking on the same lines but then noticed on the other pictures you can see the little magnets on the white gear.
Yes the 4 Magnets are on the Gear Boss.
 
Neil Robinson

Neil Robinson

Registered
24 Oct 2009
9,317
11
N W Leicestershire
Set up to test the Hall Sensor as you suggested, no Voltage noted so I guess this must be the Problem. I wonder if an actual Touch of the Magnet could have trashed it?
Are you saying that there is no voltage between the +5V and GND wires in post 18's diagram?
 
John S

John S

Registered
5 Nov 2017
545
49
Exeter, Devon, UK
Jon, is there a number stamped on the Hall Sensor, may need a magnifier to read it, have a selection of Hall Sensors, may well have one that matches..............
 
muns

muns

Moderator
Staff member
GSC Moderator
Did you try shorting A to GND as I suggested? Also is there 5v to that board?
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
22,507
174
Tamworth, Staffs.
I think Jon may have been checking continuity, rather than voltage? :think:
 
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

Registered
8 Mar 2014
2,597
105
San Diego
www.elmassian.com
went back and read... only saw him post that he tried a 5v supply.

Looking at the picture, you can see what is connected to what:


so, this is what I see:
the right hand ends of the reeds and the middle leg of the sensor appear to be connected to GND
+5 goes to the near leg of the sensor
A is the output of the sensor (which normally goes low when triggered, sort of high when not)
P is reed 2 (open, goes to ground when triggered)
G is reed 1 (ditto)

The first thing is to be sure you get 5 volts between +5 and GND..
Next, you would want to watch the A output and see it go to ground PROVIDED it is connected to the decoder, otherwise it might not read what you think... there may be a "pull up" resistor on the decoder board...

Greg
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
14,455
203
71
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
echoing Neil, if you don't have 5 volts between +5 and GND you have a more fundamental problem.

Solve that issue first... the sensor might be fine.

Greg
Ok so what I was trying to do was test it out by supplying 5v to the Hall Sensor with the board not connected to the Chip. Looks like I need to test it the other way round with the Chip Powered Up, or at least receiving power. Would not be possible I believe to have the Wheels Turning with the Bottom Wheel Securing Plate off. Though perhaps if I just powered up the Rear Bogie and left the front one unplugged except for the Circuit to the Hall Sensor that may allow me to prove that the Hall Sensor is getting power as it should, I could also test out that the Reeds are working as well.
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
22,507
174
Tamworth, Staffs.
Correct Jon,
If the board is in 'free-air', you can test the reed outputs with any old magnet.. Same magnet waved past the Hall sensor, should give an output as well. - This will be a little more subtle, than the off/on of a reed, but you should still 'see' the output go to near ground.
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
14,455
203
71
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
So tried that out and the result was a little inconclusive. Certainly the Hall Sensor Value as read by the Meter Changed by being a number to a much lesser one. As a last resort I have put all the Pickups back in Place and tried it out on Track Power. Still no Chuff.

Looking likely that the Chip is somehow or somewhere deranged or that the Hall Sensor is in some way faulty.
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
22,507
174
Tamworth, Staffs.
So, to re-cap, you can control whistle etc. but no 'chuff'?

Do you get 'standing sounds'? - Coal shovelling etc.

Have you tried ALL the usual suspect keys to turn 'sound' on? F6, F8, F3, F4..

Do the sounds you get, tie-up with the function key designations in the instructions?

Have you checked the 'starting' CV values for sound?
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
14,455
203
71
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
So, to re-cap, you can control whistle etc. but no 'chuff'?
...A yes
Do you get 'standing sounds'? - Coal shovelling etc.
...A yes
Have you tried ALL the usual suspect keys to turn 'sound' on? F6, F8, F3, F4..
...A yes the Sound comes on and off with F6. I showed that on my short vid Post 15.
Do the sounds you get, tie-up with the function key designations in the instructions?
...A yes
Have you checked the 'starting' CV values for sound?
...A no what CV is this please? Hm May be different between an XLS and this Chip as shown on this list, at Left is the XLS set.
123683_5fc70cfb2aa57b454becba0a73a98187.jpeg

Many thanks to all for your continuing assistance in trying to resolve this problem.
 
Last edited:
John S

John S

Registered
5 Nov 2017
545
49
Exeter, Devon, UK
Jon, translated the original German document to English, can be found here,


Split into two sections for downloading.

For reference to........

Page 6, Handbook HSB Mallet[10-23].de.en

- Speed encoder input activated (CV975 = 1)

Apologises for the editing, rush job, trying to get organised for the journey North.....
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
14,455
203
71
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Have not responded to the last replies as there is an important Show on this weekend. But I must say many thanks to all those that have propelling this thread to last weeks Most Populat Topic. Who would have thought?
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
14,455
203
71
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Jon, translated the original German document to English, can be found here,


Split into two sections for downloading.

For reference to........

Page 6, Handbook HSB Mallet[10-23].de.en

- Speed encoder input activated (CV975 = 1)

Apologises for the editing, rush job, trying to get organised for the journey North.....
Thanks John S, did not reply earlier as you were clearly busy and I thank you for the Document. Sadly in German but interestingly some of the CV Values are a little different to my one.

But we have some progress, well a little. Looking at CV 975 the Value in my Brochure and the Loco as read was 129. Changed it to 128 and lo and behold I am getting 1 just 1 Chuff per revolution! The English translation for CV 975 says ‘Clock External Inverce’ what ever means. So logic said that perhaps the 0..4 means number of beats per revolution. NO. 129 - 132 as values for CV 975 give no Chuff, only 128 Value gives that single Chuff.

So I delved into my XLS Brochure and CV’s 195-198 talk about Pulse Generatir and chuffs. However playing about with those CV’s gave no change so that was a dead end. These CV’s not in the TL Brochure.

Looking at things logically perhaps there is a Number of Beats CV to another CV with the CV 975, but have I reverted to some other way of creating a Chuff by loosing 1 from the Value? Curious.
 
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

Registered
8 Mar 2014
2,597
105
San Diego
www.elmassian.com
the cv "inverce" sould be "invert" or "inverse"... (although maybe that is how you spell inverse)

In any case it is related to the polarity of the signal from the sensor to the chip... leave it set so you get the 1 chuff per revolution, that means the "trigger logic" is proper.

There will be another CV for chuffs per revolution.

Greg